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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2012 1:59:20 GMT -7
Hi everyone, I joined this forum a year or so ago – you’ll find a background post here: www.blazinggrace.org/forums/forum7/2013.htmlSo, in summary, it’s over two years since I owned up to my porn problem, my wife forgave me and my marriage was restored. We enjoyed a few months of incredibly emotional and physical closeness. The physical side lessened in intensity, but things were still mostly pretty good between us (especially considering where they had been before). A year or so later, I am in a place of desperation. I’m 41 years old, and while I don’t want to use the term “midlife crisis†(it’s such a cliché), I am going through a blacker period than I have ever known. It’s not just the sense of disappointment with life in general and with myself more specifically; it’s a feeling of being trapped in a situation from which I see no way out. On my worst days, it’s a real struggle to get through the day. A lot of it, I think, has to do with how things are between my wife and I. Having had a period during which we often talked about deep, real things, we seem to have fallen back into a superficial level of relationship. I know she finds it really hard to talk about deep things, so I guess I’ve learnt to keep things inside and not try to force the issue. I recently told her how I feel (though not in detail), and her response was that, aside from one area (which I’ll get onto below), she felt that our relationship was doing OK. I found this quite a big shock, as it’s not my perception. The one area my wife is most bothered about is the relationship between me and our 17-year-old son. Basically, I have been far too hard on him over the years, with the result that things between us are very tense, and this spills over into the general family atmosphere. I know she is right about this, and I really would like to just cut him some slack. But it seems so hard to do in practice – it’s like I’m stuck in a rut of habitual responses and behaviour. But my wife feels that, if things improved in that area, everything in the garden would be pretty rosy. Anyway, I conclude that there is a mismatch of needs and/or expectations of what we need from our relationship. One area where this is most obvious is in the bedroom. We agreed 18 months or so ago to set aside time to make love at least once a week. That on its own would probably have been OK. However, when we did make love, it often seemed like my wife was just going through the motions and “letting me do it†just to satisfy me. This left me feeling hurt and rejected. (I know how women’s needs are different from men’s, and I understand that; I’m talking about a consistent pattern here.) ALternatively, I would feel so frustrated and pent-up that, when we did make love, it would all be over in no time, leaving me feeling like a failure. This has developed into a real catch 22 situation: on the one hand, I don’t want to make love because it will lead to me either feeling rejected or feeling like a failure, so it’s easier just not to bother; but on the other hand, if we don’t make love, after a while I begin to feel very frustrated and tempted. So you may guess where this is going. Having not acted out for months, it got to the point where if we didn’t make love for a while (say a week or more), I would masturbate, just to relieve the tension. This has now become a bit of a pattern. I try to only do it when the urge becomes overwhelming. Of course, immediately it’s over all the old feelings of shame and guilt return, and it’s horrible. I really thought I was done with all that. I can’t tell my wife; I know how much my previous sins hurt her, and if she found out I was slipping again, that would probably be it for our marriage. At the moment it’s about three weeks since we last made love. I haven’t mentioned it, and neither has she. I lie beside her at night wishing she would make some move so that I could feel like she actually needed and wanted me, but it doesn’t happen. I’m wrestling with all kinds of wrong sexual thoughts, and at times it’s been a desperate struggle not to go back to porn (thankfully, I haven’t given in to that temptation). So, in summary, I feel disappointed about the past, and in particular about the way I’ve ruined my relationship with my son and don’t seem to be able to change in that area; I feel sexually starved and frustrated and trapped in a cycle of gritting my teeth and bearing it for as long as I can before giving in to the temptation to masturbate; and I see no way of discussing things openly with my wife and somehow turning the situation around. It’s got to the point where I’ve thought about leaving, on the basis that suffering alone would be better than this – but I’ve never acted on it, partly because I’m too scared, partly because I can’t afford it and partly because I know that in reality I would be desperately unhappy without my wife and kids. So I feel like I’m doomed to accept my lot and be miserable for the foreseeable future. The fact that I’m a worship leader and widely respected member of our church doesn’t help. I love leading worship, and do so as sincerely and truthfully as possible, and the church responds well. But the harder things get at home, the more I feel like just throwing it in and dropping out of church altogether, rather than keeping up the “happy families†act. Sorry this probably sounds like a lot of whining and self-pity. I just don’t know what to do and really needed to be able to share this. Thanks for reading. L2L |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2012 9:59:37 GMT -7
L2L,
Thanks for sharing, and for your honesty.
A couple of comments:
(1) I certainly relate to the tension with your son. It's not uncommon (maybe it's universal?) that addicts' relations with their families are in greater or lesser degree abusive. That's certainly my own history. For us to learn to communicate and share in appropriate ways isn't easy, nor is it easy for the members of our family to learn new ways of interacting with and trusting the new person Dad has become.
I've benefited a lot by working with psychological professionals, both on my own and with various family members. They've helped me to see myself more clearly and to learn and practice new ways to relate with others.
I wonder if something like that might help? Sitting down with a counselor and with your son and saying that in part because of one's addiction, one has been distant and unpredictably angry and unable to show one's love, and that this has hurt relationships, and that one wants to build a new relationship and help on'e kids find better ways to live than one managed oneself can be incredibly powerful. I know because I've done this. Whether that's the way you start or whether you work with somebody by yourself and then expand that out, I'd encourage you at least to think about this. A lifetime of unskillful behavior produces plenty of consequences. Uncovering those and finding new ways to live may well not be something we can do on our own, especially when another person is directly involved.
(2) You're hesitant about using the word, "Midlife crisis." Another word that naturally occurs to someone reading your description is "depression." Are you working with a physician or counselor on the black desperation, the feeling trapped, the struggle to get through the day? We all have ups and downs, and this may just be part of that, but the downs you describe sound serious enough that you might want to see what can be done about them. There are a lot of tools out there, both medical and behavioral, that can make a real difference.
Many of the other things in your post are things I understand and hear and empathize with, but on which I don't have particular insights of helpful experiences.
Be well,
Tim M.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2012 12:21:35 GMT -7
Hi L2L,
This is a shot in the dark, but I am wondering if your wife's distance from you intimately is, even subconsciously, connected to the disharmony with your son. We ladies are rather inclined to let any stress in life mute our intimate responsiveness. Walking the tight-rope of peacemaker between two people one loves immensely is a very uncomfortable position to be in. Your solidarity as parents is of utmost importance to keep from sending mixed messages to your kids. Part of the sin nature, I believe, is the innate tendency of children to try to divide and conquer. One of the most pivotal messages I heard that made a difference in my interaction with our daughter was the reminder that the fruit of the Spirit are all choices, not fruit that are going to miraculously drop from a tree and flip a switch.
First, I determined that only behavior, not opinions, were worth spending time on. As long as voices were under control, we would discuss any behavior with options of one of us persuading the other, compromise, (not of God's Word, of course,) or clearly defining consequences if neither of those happened and she chose to disobey. The discussion would also conclude if it started to go in circles. It would also end if there were name-calling or other emotionally charged, inflamatory comments. I'm sure you are familiar with the premise that "I" statements, I feel, etc., are less provocative than "you" statements. (You always, you never, etc.) Superlatives are great for praise, for contention not so much.
Beyond that, I believe it is crucial to keep lines of communication open between you and your wife. If she struggles with meaningful communication, it is an issue that affects you and your marriage similarly to how your sexual sin affected her, and I would hope that she would be willing to seek counsel as Tim suggests.
Praying for all of you...
TruthSeeker
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2012 5:30:20 GMT -7
Tim,
Thank you for your kind and helpful comments. I have not sought "professional" counselling/help of any kind. I guess there are a number of factors in this: (1) having to admit to myself that I need that kind of help; (2) my wife would quite likely think I was exaggerating and being over the top (as I said, she doesn't seem to think there is a major problem other than between my son and I); and (3) counselling generally, and Christian counselling in particularly, is very much underdeveloped in the UK, compared with what I understand to be available in the US.
However, you have given me food for thought.
The "D" word (depression) had also crossed my mind. I suppose I'm put off it by the fact that it's been subconsciously inculcated into me over the years that depression is not "of God" and it's therefore somehow shameful and/or a sign of abject failure to be depressed. Which is mostly baloney, I realise, but there you go. Again, thanks for speaking your mind on this.
L2L
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2012 5:36:52 GMT -7
TruthSeeker,
Thank you for your perceptive comments. I think you are probably right that our "intimacy deficit" is at least partly connected to the disharmony with my son. The question is what to do about it. I know the way I respond to him and deal with him is overbearing and I know it needs to change. (This is actually progress: not so long ago, I didn't even recognise the fact.) The trouble is that it's become such an ingrained pattern that it's hard to break out of it. I can decide how I'm going to not respond to certain triggers, cut him more slack on certain issues, etc., but in reality what often happens is that a situation arises and I have already responded unhelpfully before I've even stopped to think about it.
One way or another I need to find a way to talk to my wife about this, and for her to listen and talk back. I told her I was really struggling and unhappy, and I think she must think a lot of it is just "in my mind" and I need to snap out of it and pull myself together…
Thanks again for comments and prayers.
L2L
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2012 6:09:29 GMT -7
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2012 6:12:06 GMT -7
DW,
Thanks for the tip – I'll take a look.
L2L
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2012 8:11:51 GMT -7
On depression and other psychological issues:
I think Christians often are reluctant to seek professional help for illnesses above the eyebrows when they would think nothing of seeking such help for illnesses anywhere else in their bodies.
Except maybe for Christian Scientists, surely anyone with heart disease or cancer, a broken arm or an infection would see a physician without even considering whether they were by doing that casting doubt on Christ's power and universal authority. Why does it feel different if the problem is in one's brain?
To me, it seems like there is a continuum. However much I may trust Christ, I'll see a doctor for my bad heart. I'll do the same thing with my bad brain, which sometimes has seizures. I'll do that despite reading in the Gospels about Christ healing a boy with what sounds like my sort of epilepsy. There may be people who have found direct healing from those conditions by prayer, but there are sure a lot more of us for whom medications and surgery have gotten our hearts and brains back in working order.
Saying I'm OK seeing a neurologist because my brain has electrical issues but I'm not OK seeing a psychiatrist because my brain has chemical issues isn't a position that makes a lot of sense to me. Nor does being willing to see a mental health professional for medications but not for tools and reflections on how to find better habits of being than what I've been stuck in for half a century. And part of recovery seems to me to be moving to a place where I can repent of the sins my addiction has led me to commit and make amends for my actions, but where I can also look at my tendency to addiction, my epilepsy, and my heart disease all as parts of who I am that do not carry shame with them. The same thing is certainly true of depression, which is not an issue for me, but is for other members of my family.
None of that is anything other than my own reflections on how I think about chronic mental and physical conditions I have some contact with, of course.
Tim M.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2012 20:25:26 GMT -7
Tim,
Thank you once again for your very kind and thoughtful words. One thing you said struck me particularly: the need to come to a place where we can see our tendency to addiction, depression, etc. as parts of who were are that do not carry shame with them. I don't think I'm there yet.
L2L
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2012 3:34:41 GMT -7
Very early in my recovery, I was at an SLAA online chat room and one of the members there said to me, "It's a disease, not a disgrace." I wasn't there yet, either. It felt very much like a disgrace to me. Still, I cried at the hope that her words offered.
You know, I spent a lot of years feeling judged by God, and moving to a place where I almost hated Him. All I could see was that He was requiring of me something that was perfectly right, but that I couldn't figure out how to do. I wished I could persuade myself God didn't exist so that I could be free of His judgment.
I tried to be a different person than I was and to get something out of church, but it was largely a dead experience for me. An example:
In the Orthodox Church, we sing the Beatitudes at every liturgy. I would dutifully do this, at the same time thinking, "There's nothing in here for me. This isn't about me. Meek? Not particularly. Merciful? No more than anybody else. Righteous? Pure in Spirit? Don't make me laugh."
When I finally accepted that I was an addict, that I needed help, that my strength was useless against my condition, then things changed. I could go to the liturgy and not pretend that now I was finally repenting, now I was different, now I was strong. Instead, I could approach the altar with a new openness, as a sex addict asking God what message there was in all this for me, a sex addict.
It was only at this point that I noticed that what I had been singing for so many years wasn't "Blessed are the righteous." It was "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness."
Who hungers and thirsts after righteousness more than someone who for 30 years has struggled every day to be righteous, and who knows that every day, he has failed?
So there was a message there for me after all. All those years that I thought God was holding back from me, judging me, hating me, not speaking to me, His word to me had been right in front of me. And what was His word? "Judged?" "Condemned?" "Hated?"
No. His word was "ΜακαÏιος!" "Blessed!" "Happy!"
Being able to see ourselves and to show ourselves and to accept ourselves as we are can change everything.
Tim M.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2012 4:57:49 GMT -7
Tim,
Thank you once again for taking the time to respond so thoughtfully.
When I got to the point of confessing my problem to my wife and pastor around two years ago, an amazing thing happened: I experienced God’s grace and forgiveness in such a real way that I realised that all my previous knowledge of it had been just that – knowledge with no real personal understanding or experience. I knew that my Christ had removed my shame and guilt, and this was tremendously liberating. I still know this to be true, although obviously the times when I allow impure thoughts to dominate or slip into masturbation, I then have to “work†to get back to that fresh realisation of God’s grace that covers all sin.
In my previous post I was referring more to the fact that even something like depression – or actually, any kind of personal struggle – has negative connotations in the minds of many Christians. If you admit to having these kinds of difficulties, you are seen as being somehow defective. The truth, of course, is that we are all defective and need to be saved from our sin. But we Christians are supremely good at covering up our brokenness and convincing ourselves and others that we have it all together. Having moved in Christian circles for 26 years, I think this has been inculcated into me to the point where, say, going to see a counsellor carries very negative connotations in my mind. I’m not saying it can’t be overcome; I’m just explaining what I meant.
As for sex addiction itself, I still struggle with calling it a “disease†as I feel that somehow removes responsibility from me. You can be entirely without fault in catching a disease, but somewhere along the line you have to choose to sin. So, in my mind, addiction is only a disease to the extent that sin is a disease.
Just my thoughts.
L2L
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2012 8:11:15 GMT -7
L2L,
First off it is good to have you back on this forum again. I have only been here since Oct 2011 and have gotten great information and it helps me to share my struggles, hooks, hang ups, along with my victories and Gods loving Grace.
I read your posted and feel you. You can read my previous posts and learn about me if you want to, but I'm just want to pass on some information that help me get closer to my wife. Once many times caught and my wife confronting me, she forgave me and we set times to make love also. I knew she was still hurting from what I have done but she tried, but like you, it felt like she was doing it to just get it over with because it was what we agreed on. Well we took a class in Sunday School called "The 5 Love Languages" by Gary Chapman. And this book really helped us. It talked about how we have love tanks and that if we don't fill our spouses love tank, she won't want to do anything for you or if she does, it feels like she is doing it because she has to and not because she wants to.
I had to find out what my wife's love language is and fill it up so she can know that I love her and show her by filling it up. They are (Words of Affirmation, Quality Time, Gifts, Acts of Services and Physical Touch). My wife's is Acts of Services and once I found out, I made sure that I did things around the house (vaccumm, dust, laundry, wash the dishes, clean the living room, just to name a few) and it filled up her love tank that when we made love, she was there making love with me and it wasn't just a chore. Jesus showed us the ultimate love when he died on the cross for everyones sins. Not just you or me but everyone. Isn't that what we need to do for our spouse. Not saying that you need to die for her but to do the things that she will make her fill loved. You can find a free online 5 Love Language test that you can both take and find out what each others is.
That is the first part. The second is your relationship with him. I'm not sure how to handle a 17 year old but I do have 2 boys, one is just turned 10 and the other is 4. And because of a choice (addiction) I made, I have lost alot of time with them. This choice took over my life and made me blind to what was important to me. In their whole life we have only been on 2 family trips, gone to the beach a couple of times and haven't had much of family time. And it is all because of my selfish me want desires that I thought would make me happy but was only destroying me and my family. Now you might be thinking that I have time to make it up to them. That is true but while you are reading this, I am in Afghanistan for a year deployment and this is my 3rd one away from my family. But I am not letting this get me discourage.
I hit rock bottom 3 days after I got here but by God's loving grace, bring me to this place and putting in my heart that enough was enough, I gave my life over to God for the last time and have winning this war that begin with a choice that I made when I was 11 years old. I was born again and transformed to a man that he wanted me to be for so long. Because of him, I have been porn and masturbation free for 119 days. And I now have the tools that I need to help me when I get back to the states and to my family.
One thing that I have been able to do here is read. And another book I recommend is "Courageous" from the creators of "Fireproof". It talks about how a father is trying to reconnect with his son who he never paid attention to and was to hard on. There is also a covent called "The Resolution" that I want to follow when I get back to my family. I can't explain it but you can read about it by doing a google search.
Well after reading what I wrote, I think I told you more about than keep it about what you are going through. I hope that through all my rambling you will be able to find something that could help you. I will pray for you and your family. I do know one thing that I need to do when I get back, is when I plant good seeds in my garden, feed and water them, weeds like to grow in there to. Make sure you deweed your garden everyday so you can produce a great crop.
Tired
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2012 2:51:56 GMT -7
Being able to see ourselves and to show ourselves and to accept ourselves as we are can change everything. Tim M. Seems good Tim. Scripture says that we become changed when see the Lord: 2. Chor 3,18 and 1. John 3,2 |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2012 3:04:05 GMT -7
L2L, First off it is good to have you back on this forum again. I have only been here since Oct 2011 and have gotten great information and it helps me to share my struggles, hooks, hang ups, along with my victories and Gods loving Grace. I read your posted and feel you. You can read my previous posts and learn about me if you want to, but I'm just want to pass on some information that help me get closer to my wife. Once many times caught and my wife confronting me, she forgave me and we set times to make love also. I knew she was still hurting from what I have done but she tried, but like you, it felt like she was doing it to just get it over with because it was what we agreed on. Well we took a class in Sunday School called "The 5 Love Languages" by Gary Chapman. And this book really helped us. It talked about how we have love tanks and that if we don't fill our spouses love tank, she won't want to do anything for you or if she does, it feels like she is doing it because she has to and not because she wants to. I had to find out what my wife's love language is and fill it up so she can know that I love her and show her by filling it up. They are (Words of Affirmation, Quality Time, Gifts, Acts of Services and Physical Touch). My wife's is Acts of Services and once I found out, I made sure that I did things around the house (vaccumm, dust, laundry, wash the dishes, clean the living room, just to name a few) and it filled up her love tank that when we made love, she was there making love with me and it wasn't just a chore. Jesus showed us the ultimate love when he died on the cross for everyones sins. Not just you or me but everyone. Isn't that what we need to do for our spouse. Not saying that you need to die for her but to do the things that she will make her fill loved. You can find a free online 5 Love Language test that you can both take and find out what each others is. That is the first part. The second is your relationship with him. I'm not sure how to handle a 17 year old but I do have 2 boys, one is just turned 10 and the other is 4. And because of a choice (addiction) I made, I have lost alot of time with them. This choice took over my life and made me blind to what was important to me. In their whole life we have only been on 2 family trips, gone to the beach a couple of times and haven't had much of family time. And it is all because of my selfish me want desires that I thought would make me happy but was only destroying me and my family. Now you might be thinking that I have time to make it up to them. That is true but while you are reading this, I am in Afghanistan for a year deployment and this is my 3rd one away from my family. But I am not letting this get me discourage. I hit rock bottom 3 days after I got here but by God's loving grace, bring me to this place and putting in my heart that enough was enough, I gave my life over to God for the last time and have winning this war that begin with a choice that I made when I was 11 years old. I was born again and transformed to a man that he wanted me to be for so long. Because of him, I have been porn and masturbation free for 119 days. And I now have the tools that I need to help me when I get back to the states and to my family. One thing that I have been able to do here is read. And another book I recommend is "Courageous" from the creators of "Fireproof". It talks about how a father is trying to reconnect with his son who he never paid attention to and was to hard on. There is also a covent called "The Resolution" that I want to follow when I get back to my family. I can't explain it but you can read about it by doing a google search. Well after reading what I wrote, I think I told you more about than keep it about what you are going through. I hope that through all my rambling you will be able to find something that could help you. I will pray for you and your family. I do know one thing that I need to do when I get back, is when I plant good seeds in my garden, feed and water them, weeds like to grow in there to. Make sure you deweed your garden everyday so you can produce a great crop. Tired Tired, I don't see what you try to accomplish with giving a lot of advices? How can that help you in your own recovery? I hope to be friendly. I am sorry if I don't manage that. Sorry! I just feel there is something that does not seem to be right here. Hopefully I am wrong? I just feel something is not right, and I don't know how to deal with my own feeling of frustration. I do it this way. It might be wrong. If anyone know how to deal with their own frustrations, you might be able to share about it, but again I don't want to be fixed. Talk about yourself or give constructive feedback that can build me up and make me happy. Best regards |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2012 7:08:30 GMT -7
Man,
I told L2L about my problems and what has helped me along the way. And I might have gone further than I should of because this is post, not mine. So for me to answer you question on here is to me, in my opinion selfish. But I will answer you on the accountablity forum.
L2L, please forgive me if I stepped my boundaries with giving to much advice. I just want to see my brothers succeed in defeating this and stand up strong in victory. May God bless you and work in you.
Tired
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