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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2011 6:21:43 GMT -7
Here's a not-very-short backstory:
My wife and I have been married for 6 years, prior to that we had a long-distance relationship for 1.5 years, then dated for about a year.
We have an awesome 2 year old son.
My wife and I met while I was still in my home country of Malaysia. I was a successful engineer there and things were good. She was a freshman in college visiting from the US. We clicked, and thus began a great but difficult long-distance relationship due our distance. Eventually she convinced me that I should come to the US, so I started making plans. She wanted to stay put because she has always wanted to be a medical missionary, so I said that I would plan around her needs (i.e. MCATs, moving close to the medical school she get accepted into, Board exams, moving again to where she needs to attend residency, then later to where her mission work takes her).
Now when I moved here, I underwent some serious culture shock and in the process I receded into my shell, and my addiction to porn to deal with the stress began. I had look at it a couple of occasions as a teen, but it really took hold when I arrived here. Needless to say, it began a string of heartbreaks for my wife-to-be. We went for counseling to deal with it, as well as some of her own major childhood problems. Each time I would be ok for a couple or so months, then regress into my addiction and consequent lies for another month, until she found me out again. This process went on for the duration of our marriage. I loved my wife a lot and hated what I was doing to her and myself, but my selfishness always got in the way of complete healing.
So my wife's life with me has been filled with deception, uncertainty, depression, and for those who've been through it -- the added stress of medical school while trying to raise a family. I still maintained my promise to help her fulfill her dreams of being a doctor to the effect that I was more often the one taking care of our son, the home, the meals, the finances, the chores, etc., but her growing distrust and resentment of me caused a lot of friction, and thus lots of fights, tears, nights on the couch.
Finally in June last year, over a frustration-laden and very rude comment I made about her studying habits, she had enough and announced a separation. She went through the whole "You turned my switch off", "I don't love you anymore", "I have no more energy to put into this marriage", "I don't respect you anymore" dialogue, and had her thoughts validated by her friends and family. Granted, she said she wanted some space, and wanted to wait till she had free time away from medical school to meditate/pray on her decision. So myself, our close friends at church, and my family backed off. She eventually had some time for herself, after which she said God told her He was fine with her decision. This I don't understand.
Meanwhile when my wife initially announced the separation, it became a wake up call. I started making all the changes she's been wanting from me for so long - to stop my addiction, makes friends, stop lying, be humble, be less stubborn, etc. I started taking care of myself physically, emotionally and spiritually. Since I hadn't yet read any of Michele's books, I was also doing all the mistakes like pleading, contacting her friends and family, crying...all the big no-nos.
I found this book called Divorce Busting (by Michelle Weiner-Davis) in November and found it really refreshing and realistic; it even made me sad because she highlighted a lot of problems my wife and I had that we could sidestepped so easily. I wish I had her book in addition to my initial counseling earlier in our marriage. In December I picked up a copy of the follow up to Divorce Busting, called Divorce Remedy. I've been trying hard to keep up with the techniques (I can tell you more about it if you'd like me to), and remaining hopeful and optimistic. The hardest has been my wife's extreme snide comments about me and the way I do things, and especially the way I raise our son. We still live in the same house (I live in the guest room), so that kind of contact is frequent. Sometimes I can't help but wonder if she truly has moved on and is treating me like a roommate she tolerates. Yet I remain positive and try to save our marriage.
It hasn't helped either that I had lost my job the month after she announced the separation (unrelated, however), and it's something she brings up a lot. I'm sure her lack of respect for me is that I don't have any income right now. So my other battle is trying to find a proper income job.
Anyway, thank you for letting me vent. I welcome your prayers, thoughts and comments. I've been a fool for so long, and now that my wife is announcing divorce, I've fallen deeply in love with her again. I know we can make it work wonderfully again, if her heart softens enough. At this point, my only trust is in God.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2011 10:04:49 GMT -7
I'm also hoping for some input/suggestions/wisdom from wives as well. I continue to overcome my urges and desires while working on myself as a whole, e.g. to be a better man, husband, father. It is my hope that these changes are enough to be attractive to my wife again. Sadly, her wall is up, and this is the toughest challenge I've ever faced. I caused this, and I'll go to the gates of hell for my wife.
As a side note, one thing I notice about this forum is that there sure is a lot of viewing traffic, but we could definitely use more reply/posting traffic.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2011 18:37:53 GMT -7
Hi aaron,
i'm not a wife but i hope my input may help abit. Please excuse me if i come across as harsh. To me,you came across as somewho doesn't really see the harm you have caused her.you have broken her heart repeatedly yet you expect her to forgive you in a day. You have the victim mentality and its as if you blame her for your mistakes albeit indirectly.Do you listen really to the words behind the snide remarks she makes? Do you understand the anger and pain and the loss she feels of her womanhood and self esteem.Get off your high horse and just for a minute,one minute,stop blaming,justifying and put yourself in her shoes. You say you are changing, then ask yourself for whom you are changing. If its for her,you will never move. Part of taking responsibility is changing for yourself and God. Let your desire be to be broken and humble like david in psalm 51 and cry," Against you,you only, lord have i sinned! " Then and only then will you be transformed.Be ready to start from scratch,to be stripped bare so that you see yourself in surrender and accept the consequences of your actions even if it means losing your wife.Let her mourn the way she deems best and be a man and take it,she will respect you for that! I will be praying for you. May God grant you the desires of your heart
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2011 7:00:18 GMT -7
You repeatedly broke her heart. I suspect your wife reached the point where she decided, correctly, that she could no longer open herself up for the repeated abuse of her trust.
She finally decided to stop beating her head against the wall. I applaud her for that.
Given the circumstances, I wonder why you think or expect to be respected or loved.
Sounds like your wake-up call came too late.
I hope you work to stay clean and sober from ALL addictions......and that you are open and honest with any future mate about your struggles. The important thing here is to learn from your mistakes and move on.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2011 7:16:14 GMT -7
[user=81739]Enigma[/user] wrote:
Thank you Enigma -- actually I appreciate your upfront-ness and honesty. Sometimes I need a jolt like yours to refocus on my goals, especially when times are dreary. I have been working on myself and fortifying my relationship with God, and family. I am hoping to reach a point where I can let go of my wife, or if she decides to give me another opportunity. Either way I want to trust the Lord's plan.
I'm sorry if I came on too high-horsey or whinny. I have mostly good days, but this past 2-3 days have been heartbreaking and trying. That's the reason why I reached out (and vented) with this thread. Sunday night my heart sank when I overheard my wife talking on her phone (she talks loud) with one of her guy classmates about dating other men/doctors (she's in med school), and she discussed an article she read about married women who go back into the dating scene and how "easy" they are with sex. Then a little later she said that she married too young. She married me at 22, and she's always said during our separation that she was naive and immature then. Even though there's no other man in her life right now, the very thought of my wife dating another man, and being physically intimate with him makes me feel absolutely awful. I was her first and she was mine...call it possessiveness or whatever. I know it's not the physical that counts, but emotional and spiritual, but as a guy...I just don't want to think about it too much. It takes me away from my goals and creates a playground for the Devil.
I realize I can never truly feel what it was like to be in my wife's shoes for all these years, but reading the accounts and stories in Wives section here makes me cry every time. With that little glimpse of understanding, I try hard to apply it to myself daily and be humble. I really appreciate y'all input. Sorry I tend to ramble too much.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2011 7:54:02 GMT -7
[user=42104]Devastated Wife[/user] wrote:
I agree, Devastated Wife. I am devoted to being honest and not be trapped again. It's the least I could do. Some of you may might think this to be weird, but I truly believe that God Himself can soften hearts, and can give life to something dead (like a marriage, for example). If my wife and I do get a divorce, it'll just be a piece of paper. In our God's eyes, he still sees us as husband and wife. We might've abused our vows, but we vowed to Him together. Only He can relief us from our promise to Him (Matt. 19:6 -- Therefore, what God has joined together, let no man separate). Basically all I'm saying is that I will continue to be a best friend to my wife, and because she's spiritually always my wife, I will keep unconditionally loving her because it is my duty as a husband to do so, even though she and the legal world might not see it this way.
I have a question for the wives though: It sounds like many of y'all were absolutely resolute with your decision to end the relationship with your spouse, when push came to shove. A couple of close female friends I've talked to who were in similar addict situations did the same too. What I see in my wife, however, seems like she's in turmoil over her decision. Outwardly she's as strong and resolute as can be (just like the woman I fell in love with  , but she still snoops (check my e-mail, etc), complains about my family, avoids all her own close church friends, and so on. Is this normal mourning? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 10:07:40 GMT -7
Well, my wife is moving out this Saturday and taking our son with her. We have a parenting arrangement/schedule, but I hope to get that formalized. My wife is moving somewhere close but has not and will not disclose her address until, according to her, she is ready to see me. I'm trying to trust her when she says she needs her space, but as a parent, I need to know where my son is.
I've been crying harder and louder than I've ever been, especially when I see things we cherish being thrown out or packed away. I keep telling myself it's God's test for BOTH of us, and that He has a plan. I just have to trust that too.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 11:44:51 GMT -7
I haven't been in divorce situations, so I don't really have anything to contribute to that.
What is your situation regarding your addiction? Sexual addictions are very difficult to overcome, and the stress of your uncertain family life has to add to that difficulty. Are you staying sober? Are you working on underlying issues for your addiction? What's up with that side of your life?
Tim M.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 14:16:32 GMT -7
[user=22715]TM2[/user] wrote:
I'd have to say, Tim, that for the year and half prior to our separation in June 2010, I had been:
A. Personally decreasing my reliance on porn. I was still lying about it and doing it, but I found it less and less of a necessity and less attractive.
B. Doing porn as a retaliation and rebellion against all the rules and complaints that my wife had and was making. We had such an enmeshed mother-son-like relationship, the more she restricted, the more I wanted to break the rules.
In fact, when my wife decided to separated and remove things like Internet filters, it felt like a whole burden off my shoulders for some reason. It took a while to sink in that the filters were actually gone. Ever since then, temptations and urges have not led me to turn on the computer to look at porn.
The other thing that woke me up was my wife telling me that IT'S OVER. Done. i don't love you anymore. I'm taking my son away from you. I wish it didn't take this for me to get porn under control, so any of you who still have your spouses by your side, please, please stop playing with fire. Give your spouses the respect and love they deserve.
I have done full 180s with my life. I'm working to be the man that my wife fell in love with before all this nonsense happened. Ultimately, I'm doing this for myself, but if my wife does decide at a point in her life to notice me again, I will be that man she was drawn to in the first place. It's crazy to think that my urges and temptations automatically make me attracted/horny for my wife nowadays, but it happens. If only she was still here to enjoy that with me. Of course, she is so hurt and traumatized by me that she strongly believes that I will always be addicted, and now wants to phase me out of our son's life partly due to the addiction.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2011 6:11:32 GMT -7
UPDATE 10pm, 2/23
As someone of you know from my previous post that my wife is moving out with our son on Saturday to a town nearby and would not reveal the address of the new house. I had made it clear to that as a parent I need to know where my son is living, especially in an emergency. She was adamant and I eventually backed away from making things worse, even though I was freaking out from a legal perspective.
Anyway, that was over the weekend. Last night my wife comes into my room and starts choking up. She said she can't believe she's doing this but... Then she tells me the address of her new house. Now I wasn't expecting that. I can't even remember the address because it really caught me by surprise, but I thanked her for telling me nonetheless and told her that I won't take advantage of the information.
Then she stayed for about an hour and started saying how afraid she is now that I know where she lives, what I might do to her. I consoled her some and assured her that I will not and have not the intention of harming her or such. I was concerned as a father where my son was. I thanked her for telling me. Later she brought this up again saying that once she files, she's going to be really afraid of what I'd do. If I did anything, she's put a restraining order on me. I said don't worry, I won't do anything like that.
There was a lot of back and forth after that, about things like care for our son, her residency, etc. However, here are some of the main things she said:
1. I want to remind you that this will NOT work between you and me, because the I'm not attracted to you and haven't been for a long time. I knew this wouldn't work when early in the separation I tried imagining you sleeping with another woman, and I didn't care. I was apathetic.
2. I don't see you ever kicking your porn habit. I saw something in your history the other day (she mentioned only one site that I was unfamiliar with), so you're lying. You keep telling me you've got it under control, but the way you talk and the way I've heard you talk in recent weeks -- you used to talk like that during our marriage. You're only okay for a couple weeks, or months and then back at it again. All I see is words.
3. I notice your new 70s old school Christian values that you suddenly have. So black and white. Before this, you used to be more liberal. Now we're polar opposites. I can tell you that even if you didn't have the porn issue anymore, I will never want to be married to guy with your Christian values. (I tried explaining that what she saw was me going back to the fundamentals, but I still enjoy those liberal views. I gave her some examples, but she didn't think they were relevant).
4. This new Aaron I see, those changes you said you've made -- i don't find them the least bit attractive. When I talk to you over the past weeks, there are times when you still react or talk like your old self. All the things you say, well...there always has been the counseling Aaron and the real Aaron. And the counseling Aaron is nice and perfect for all his friends to see, but the real Aaron keeps saying the same things over and over again. And with porn, I'm not interested in seeing if you're over it.
5. All the things I tolerated about you earlier in our marriage - when I was younger - like your laziness, your momma's boy attitude...I can't stand them and are huge turn offs for me.
6. I spoke to the therapist and she said in order for me to move on, as well as for you, I and our son to move forward, you need to get that hope that this will still work out with me out of your head. You're still not accepting that this is over.
Then she walked out the door.
Is my wife just trying to clear the air from her side of things? What is she trying to accomplish by bringing up all these topics/gripes even though she has said over and over that she's COMPLETELY done? Is she hoping she can convince me that it's truly over, so I will leave her alone? Is she venting? Or is there some small bit of positive somewhere in there? Is she subconsciously not fully convinced of her decision? What do you think?
My divorce busting support group mentioned that the very fact that:
A. She came on her own volition to my room to give me the address shows some level of respect, because despite what's going on, I kept my boundaries, combined with confidence and maturity - things I had lost and made her loose respect for me as a man, husband and father.
B. She listed the things she didn't find attractive about me. She didn't have to, especially if she says she's done and out the door and moving on. It could be her trying to validate or vent about me to me, but my support group sees this conversation we had as a positive. A wife who says she's apathetic wouldn't care to talk about these things on a frequent basis with me, right?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2011 8:38:40 GMT -7
I don't have much to say on this. It sounds like the summary of your situation is roughly this: You continued to use porn until your wife decided she had definitively had enough. At that point, the seriousness of your situation became apparent, and you quit. There have not been real, observable changes in actions and in way of life to support quitting and to provide your wife with confidence that the quitting is real, and that a new way of life is real.
On the marriage, I have no words. It seems to me entirely possible that your wife means what she says - that she has had enough. That still leaves you your own addiction to work on. My own experience doesn't leave me optimistic about just deciding to quit on one's own and staying quit. I know people who have quit very suddenly, but they had a lot of support in the form of 12-step fellowships and counseling and so on. To me it makes sense to get all this support in order to have the tools in place to stay quit. Those tools might also help you to understand yourself better and to grow as a person. That might or might not change your wife's mind - I think you should be realistic about that - but if it keeps you sober whatever she does, it will obviously be worth it. And it does what you can to build trust, though again, the time for that may be past.
What are you doing to get help in dealing with your addiction?
Tim M.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2011 20:32:53 GMT -7
Hi aaron,
i'm sorry to hear your wife left,i hope you find strenght in God.My hope for you is to stop analysing your wifes every move,it may cause you more harm than good.focus more now on how to heal especially from porn.leave her out oe the equation no matter how hard it is for you.its God and you now.all the best.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2011 10:58:29 GMT -7
Tim - I wonder about the staying power of my changes as well. But it's been 7 months, and with all the stress, mood-swings and alone time, I haven't been drawn to looking at porn. Mind you, I do have urges sometimes, like a sexy ad or nude painting may make me starting thinking, but I am glad I haven't seen the need to pursue it further...to pursue porn. I also have been accountable to a couple of close friends at church, while reading various books and practicing their programs. Prayer and reading the Bible have kept me sane as well, while actively focusing on improving and challenging myself to up my self-image have, I feel, taken my mind off negative emotions and desires. Even the divorce busting program I've been participating has in some way also moved me to purge porn, lying and everything related to them. In order to move upward, I have to change me. It is for me, my son, and if my wife decides to give me one final chance, for her too. If she doesn't want to, then it is her loss.
Enigma - Believe me, I feel like every time I'm able to free my mind from over-analysing or worrying, I am able to breathe easy and allow my changes to flower and bloom. There are some bad days, like yesterday (I saw my wife had written "Divorce Paperwork" as the first item on her to-do list), so I need all the support I can get, which I why I love reaching out to my friends and you guys in this forum. among other places. I see God in all of you, so every one has been nothing but positive inspiration and motivation for me. I still y'all's prayers -- especially for the healing of my wife and I.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 8:24:38 GMT -7
Just wanted to let you all know that I just got served with step 1 of divorce papers. Please pray for us, you guys. It's a horrible gut-wrenching experience when it does sink in, and with our son with me when I got the papers just made it a whole lot harder to swallow and fathom. I'm sorry I brought it upon my family.  |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2011 12:49:19 GMT -7
[user=85335]aaronleong[/user] wrote:
Im sorry to hear of your divorce. I'd just like to remind you that our God is a God of restoration. He loves to heal what was broken. Your biggest prayer should be to see your wife saved. A relationship with Christ is the greatest gift you can give her!
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, but she still snoops (check my e-mail, etc), complains about my family, avoids all her own close church friends, and so on. Is this normal mourning?