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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2007 5:56:15 GMT -7
i understand that you want me to see God correctly....but that doesnt answer the question i posed.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2007 14:38:57 GMT -7
Dear J714,
Throughout the centuries, men often question God about Salvation. It has been and are the main motivation for most people to seek God, and have a religion, even for moslems, hindoos, buddhist, and Christians.
Now, to answer your question, I want to share you some verses that God used to help me, these are from Mat 19:16-30
Now, I don't have many time, so I will be brief, do have a personal deep bible on these verses, and you will be greatly encouraged. As you can see this man is not an adulterer (which made him better than us...) but then notice this, THAT IS NOT IT,
When that young man said "All these I have kept, what do I still lack?" , Jesus DO NOT answer, "Oh yeah? you haven't masturbated? well, that's GREAT! then you will have eternal life!" nor He DO NOT answer,"NO whoring? NO murder? NO stealing? well, you are then better than most guys, so I think I will let you just have eternal life..."
INSTEAD HE ANSWERS
"If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
That man went away sad, because he thought the cost of following Christ (which for him includes his material wealth) is too great.
J714, Christ also wants you to follow him, it's not about being good enough for salvation, you will NEVER BE ABLE TO DO THAT,
WITH GOD...
YOU NEED TO BE WITH GOD...
YOU NEED TO FOLLOW HIM...
If you read the whole passage of Ephesians 5, you will read these passages in a whole different point now...
You will see that Eph 5 is actually about FOLLOWING CHRIST, being His Children, about living in Him, and Him in us. IT IS DEFINITELY NOT ABOUT RULING OUT PEOPLE! Christ came to this world to save sinners... the Church is made of the sick... and He healed them.
So, J714, come to Him, follow Him...
This is what He promised you,
PS:
I want you to read more about how you see Christ, because you need to know WHO you follow, right?
Because salvation lies in His hands, not on your power... You can't be good enough for salvation... no man can.... including me... but with God... You can.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2007 14:53:06 GMT -7
i can see your interepration...but ive heard chuck smith interpret it and other preachers , say that it means if your involved in sexual impurity, such as an unbroken pattern, you have no inheritance in God....dont let anybody decieve you with empy words(dont let anybody tell you its a big deal). i dont know how to take this differently.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2007 0:39:18 GMT -7
Hi, J714, I'm back. Just played Ping-pong with my friends.
First, I am grateful to God, because of His work in your heart. I believe that God is working through your hunger for the Word regarding salvation. Be thankful to God J714! God is working in You. You have been blessed through the books that you've read, and through sermons you hear.
That is true J714.
UNREPENTANT men do not deserve Kingdom of God.
I will pray to God for you
"Dear Lord, Help us, help me, help BigJ714. He hunger for You Lord. Create in Him a pure heart, Help him see your way, Let Your Spirit change Him, Give him Your Sorrow, Let him repent his ways. We will study the Word together again Lord, do, Teach Us, You have the power, we cannot change ourselves, no matter what we do, we cannot save ourselves, so save us Lord. Have mercy on us"
Second, You need Face to Face Counselling. You need someone, You are created to be united in a Church, You are created to be loved by a REAL PERSON, not just some words. I pray so you can find someone you can trust to open up. As David have Jonathan, Timothy have Paul, Paul have Barnabas, I pray so You will find your bestfriend.
Third, There are MANY interpretations about bible.
You need to examine the Word, to see if what the sermons you hear is true. Remember, there is only ONE GOD, ONE BIBLE, ONE SPIRIT, ONE TRUTH. God's Truth, and only He can give you the truth.
Fourth, There is NO UNREPENTANT DISCIPLES in the bible. There are several religious good, law abiding, UNREPENTANT people in the bible, and they are called the Pharisees and Law Teachers. I will give you some very strange idioms for you; Rebellious Servants, Religious Infidel, Holy Idolater, Loving Murderer, Honest Liar, sounds strange isn't it? How about Masturbating Saints? Adulterous Faithful Husband? disgusting isn't it?
You have to choose your master
If you kept your habitual sins, You have idolized your sins. If it were sexual, then you are worshipping your phallus.
If you have habitual sins, you simply need to repent. DO EVERYTHING THAT IT TAKES TO REPENT, PLUCK OUT, CUT OFF! This is very serious, Are you willing to do anything to repent? Are you willing to open up? Are you willing to find Godly men in your neighbourhood? Are you willing to join a Bible based Church? Are you willing to be honest, vulnerable, exposed, in your Church? Are you willing to seek Him Whole heartedly? Are you willing to let Holy Spirit do His work in You? Are you willing to give up doing your way, and Let God do His way, and You to OBEY EVERYTHING He wants you to do?
I hope these help you J714.
Know this, I am also a sinner. 2 months ago, I've seen porn. I am a worthless good- for- nothing christian. But, God, have freed me from masturbating for 2 months. I have to share you, the Joy, the Dignity that He restored, the Pleasure... is just too good to be told. Follow Him J714, and you will find satisfaction, you will be reaaaaly thankful for Him. Seek Him, wholeheartedly.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2007 3:42:19 GMT -7
its funny, ive heard alot of studies on passages like eph5:5 1cor6:9 and the interpretations are usually in two camps. one says that those people "practicing sin" are people who are completely defiant and sinning willfully without remorse. Than there is the other camp thats says you fall under those condemnations if you are involved , say in sexual impurity on any repeated, or unbroken pattern of sin. so if I try to make myself not fall into that condemnation, doesnt that make me try to be justified by my own efforts?, making grace of no effect?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2007 4:44:21 GMT -7
Dear J714,
On the above verses, you will see that it was actually GRACE that teaches you to say no to ungodliness, and worldly passions. J714, only His Grace will enable you to stop sinning (which in our case, masturbating and fornication).
I was free, and it was only by His grace. When I repent, I can do so because of His work in me. I need Godly Sorrow, which only He can give. Pray, ask, beg, plead for Repentance, Pray for His Grace, Pray for Holy Spirit to change you Inside Out.
Grace DO NOT meant for you to dwell in sin. It was not some coupon for the penalty of sin. The wages of sin is death, and what Grace do... is teaches you to stop sinning.
Ask for His grace.
I will share you another verse on this.
God's patience, is meant for us to repent.
It was never a discount card for sin.
When Christ died on the cross, His blood shed, His body beaten to pulp. He done it, to pay for your sin, so you can have a chance, so you can be reconciled, so the GRACE of the Lord can flow to sinners like us, and the only way... is Him. Christ.
There are many teaching on bible out there. But remember, that the focus of the Bible is Jesus Christ. Now, this may sound crazy. But Christ is the truth.. personified. If you are curious about the truth, look to Him, seek Him.
I hope these helps.
Keep seeking for Him J714
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2007 11:58:26 GMT -7
Bigj714,
Any sin, no matter how large or small, will keep a person out of heaven if one refuses to repent of it.
Assuming masturbation is a sin (because it violates the interpersonal nature of sexuality as demanded by Genesis 1:27; 2:24), it will be included in the warning given in Ephesians 5:5.
However God knows how we men struggle with repetition of sexual acts. Jesus said we should forgive one another "seventy times seven" (or "seventy-seven times"--the translation doesn't matter, as it's a figure for unlimited times; Matthew 18:21-22). He also said we should forgive our brother "seven times in the day" (Luke 17:4). God himself will not forgive less. Another verse says God's grace expands to cover any amount of sin (Roman 5:20).
These verses are not a license to sin. But they do promise that God can offer all the forgiveness we need while we "learn what is pleasing to him" (Ephesians 5:10).
I've been wrestling to overcome masturbation for 37 years. Every time I fall I repent, get up, and take another run at chastity, praying that my repentance will be blessed and be lasting. Because I know God hasn't given up on me, I haven't given up on myself.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2007 12:07:13 GMT -7
nice paulos...thanks.........and it does say if anyone sins we have an advocate with father.........not, ok you went too far, im done with you.......praise Jesus!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2007 2:48:23 GMT -7
Bigj714,
I see you asked a question above about justification that still needs an answer. Though there's a sense in which we're already justified, since it's the perfect righteousness of Christ that God credits to our empty faith, there's also a sense in which our full salvation lies in the future: "Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God" (Romans 5:9). And with our final salvation in view, Paul exhorts us: "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" (Philippians 2:12-13). Precisely because we're assured of our righteous standing in Christ, we're commanded to practice righteousness existentially, undergirded by the grace of God that precedes, accompanies, and completes all our own efforts. C. F. D. Moule, a British New Testament scholar, describes the Christian task as one of "relaxed strenuousness": relaxed, because Christ has done righteousness for us; strenuous, because there remains a path to traverse. Augustine put it this way: "Man's righteousness must be attributed to the operation of God, although not taking place without man's will" (On the Spirit and the Letter 7 [v]). Again: "Grace cures the will whereby righteousness is freely loved" (52 [xxx]). Calvin: "We are justified not without works yet not through works" (Institutes of the Christian Religion iii 16.1).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2007 10:45:57 GMT -7
As I observed in earlier posts on this thread, the issue of how we should view masturbation ethically is widely debated among evangelical Christians in western Europe and America today, and has been an Achilles' heel in my own long struggle to surmount it from the age of about 15 into my 50s. Therefore my intense search for a well-rounded biblical view of sexuality, within which to arrive at a clear theological perspective on masturbation, continues. Another set of verses having implications that appear to count heavily against the practice of solo sex, besides those in the creation accounts that highlight the complementarity of male and female (Genesis 1:27 and 2:24), is found in the Song of Solomon. That book of the Bible is a poetic description of the positive delights of erotic love, redolent with near-oriental spice and imagery. One group of verses enjoins persons not to stimulate the sexual impulse before or outside of the proper context of marriage determined by God: "I adjure you ... that you stir not up nor awaken love until it please" (2:7; 3:5; 8:4). Another group of verses, spoken by the female figure in the poems, gives beautiful expression to the interpersonal co-ownership of spouses that God intends sexuality to symbolize: "My beloved is mine, and I am his" (2:16); "I am my beloved's, and he is mine" (6:4); "I am my beloved's, and his desire is for me" (7:10). Put those groups of verses together, and it would seem difficult to make a case for individuals stimulating themselves in solitude. Agree?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2007 11:52:36 GMT -7
The Song of Solomon is certainly a love poem concerning a man and a woman and I agree that masturbation is ruled out.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2007 14:48:48 GMT -7
Thanks for the confirmation, Guitarist63.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2010 17:45:44 GMT -7
I 100% agree with the mutual masterbation thing. My wife has actually bought both of us sex toys for this very reason.
I used to be addicted to porn. I've slowly pulled myself away from it over the years. I do masterbate every once in awhile, but not with porn. More like the exploratory thing posted before. I really don't see yet where there is anything wrong with that. It has actually helped our sexual relationship. We want to please eachother the best way we can. That's what love is all about.
I've found that the more my wife has sex with me, the more I don't care to masterbate. My wife sees that men need a release every now and then, so she is more than willing to take care of me without wanting anything in return. Sometimes without me asking. We do have sex at least once a week if not twice. There are occasional two to three week spans where we don't do anything, but we makes up for those. ;-)
I really don't understand a couple that is not willing to give their all even in the bedroom. A doctor friend of mine said that everyone has their own unique likes and dislikes in the bed. As unique as your finger prints. To have a healthy sexual relationship you have to be willing to explore, learn, be open and creative. Have an "Education Day" every now and then.
How I Broke the Addiction to Porn: I noticed that everytime that I looked at porn it never failed that my wife and I would get into a random argument. If I looked at it at night, we would argue the next morning. If I looked at it during the day, we would argue when we saw eachother at home. Men, this was an evil spirit invited into the house by the one who has been called the priest of the family. That evil spirit did not like my virtuous wife's spirit. That was the cause of the random argument. That spirit hated my wife. I don't want to be responsible for bringing that spirit in. Plain and simple.
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Daniela
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Post by Daniela on Jul 17, 2015 0:34:34 GMT -7
I know this conversation is already a long time ago; and maybe the original poster is not even active on this forum anymore, however I would like to respond to it from my female perspective.
In fact, I have masturbated a lot in the past without any erotic fantasies. That's perfectly possible for me, since I primarily crave the good feeling it gives me. So I would just focus on my own body. I don't want to go into any gory details, but I think for most women self-touch is an essential part of masturbation. The thing is that it just appears so awkward to me now to lovingly caress myself. I think the main problem with masturbation (even without fantasy) is that you have to combine two roles that are absolutely incompatible: The Giver and the Receiver. It's not how the Lord intended it to be: A mutual way of stimulating and pleasing one another within a marriage relationship. So that's why I came to the conclusion that it's absolutely wrong to masturbation - with or without porn/fantasies.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 3:19:12 GMT -7
Thanks for sharing Daniela.
I masturbated from age 11 to 18 and then I rededicated my life to Christ. The stress in my life from age 14 to 18 was horrible b/c my mom, who had divorced my alcoholic father when I was 10, went from the frying pan and into the fire by marrying a card carrying sociopath. They fought like cats and dogs every day. I M to reduce stress. I also didn't receive unconditional love from either my biological father nor my step father even tho he was supposed to be a Christian. (He divorced my mom after 18 years and married a woman 40 years younger!)
I opened up and shared something with my husband last night and I was sobbing by the time I was done.
I told him since I found out about his porn addiction, I have struggled with a fantasy life of finding a husband who doesn't treat me this way. I feel lonely b/c he's introverted and doesn't open up. And then the P addiction gave him sexual and emotional anorexia.
I also confessed last night that I have masturbated w/o him a few times b/c it's hard for me to shut off my sexual desires now that we're separated. I got mad at him and then I got mad and disgusted with myself b/c we had a healthy fun sex life.....until we got the internet.
It's like I still physically want that intimacy with him, but emotionally, I'm not ready. I shut down if I try.
However, I don't want to fall into the M trap either, but it's been a struggle. I actually have a higher sex drive now that I've had my hysterectomy. I also take hormone creams and my SD is higher than it was 13 years ago after the birth of my third child. Then he got involved in P so many times, I would get hurt b/c he couldn't perform.
I'm just praying one day at a time. And I try not to beat myself up over mistakes.
I'm hoping to have the energy to go to Celebrate Recovery tonight.
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