Bridge the Connection Between Words & Action With A List?

I would agree with making the list. Sounds like he needs to have it written out to understand and kept accountable. Change takes a LONG time too, and it only happens at the rate at which the person is WILLING to put into changing their behavior. From your posts that you have written, your husband may not be totally broken yet. I don't know.
It also sounds like there are some communication issues where he is interpreting your words or tone of voice in the wrong way. I've had to relearn communicating with my husband and it has taken us awhile to be clear, respectful, and timely in our approach. I'm really bad at being timely and being respectful, partly because I've learned the wrong way to assert myself since I thought I needed to be "right" if we were arguing.
Anyway, make the list. I think it will take you guys one step closer to being on the same page. *HUGS*

I agree that lists might be a good idea to try. I would make atleast 2. One for behavioral changes you are looking for and one for any chores you would like done. This way you can update the chores one as things are completed.

Thank you so much for your input guys.
I have made 2 lists so far (and also included a section where I can work on things for him, as well. After all, we are in this together, yes?)
Uh. this is so hard you guys. I am so exhausted with all of this. I try to be strong, but I'm not gonna lie and don't need to - I know you guys would understand - I am very discouraged at the moment. I don't want a divorce but it seems like the only way to end the pain. Please help encourage me not to give up on this marriage.
Anyways, back to these lists..
Does that seem like a reasonable way for me to ask my husband to show me some action as far as being present with me in this marriage as a dependable spouse and partner?

Thanks
*love*

1. Get the rest of the tax information mailed off
(response was that he was still waiting for me to print out the forms again)
I remember you requesting to use my laptop and printer to complete this task, sorry that I misunderstood.
I will find them and print them, where did you say they were?
(Privately emailing these things between us instead of posting everything would probably be best at this point)

2. Help me get our 3 dogs to the vet for their yearly shots.
(response was that he would help and he didn't mind paying if he had the money)
Great, then you can plan on doing this next week.
I will let you know the specific day and time we will be expecting you, thanks!

3. Help me keep up with our landlord's house by trimming the limbs away from the top of the roof.
(response was to let him know when it was ok for him to be up on the roof)
You can come by the house any time to complete this task.
Just send me a text message to let me know what day and time you will be coming by, thanks!

4. Please finish getting the emergency brake on the truck squared away.
(response was that he would measure the spring and get the part -  as he stated before)
Great, thanks!

He also stated that he would not comment on the behavioral changes right now.
He stated that there was more than that that needed to be worked on (Agreed! But the basic things first, I think....)
He also stated that we may need to discuss things with a mediator (That sounds great! I must insist that they read my posts here on the forum so that they understand where I have been, where I am going, and where I want to be before mediating in our marriage discussion)

There was no sense of any kind of an apology or real caring in his response, which makes me a bit sad, but it's ok! I'll get over it again eventually.
His responses to this list struck me as being very curt and uncaring.
That is ok. Nothing is perfect. I'll take what I can get at that point, even if it's only simple chores around here getting done.

*Well, I was responding to a post, but it has been deleted now*
Sigh.

"Well, that was interesting, now I know you are both on here which makes it a little awkward, but definitely hopeful "
Yeah, I don't know exactly why he did that, as we definitely didn't discuss it with one another. But it's ok. Nothing to do about it now. 

"I think the first list is fine except that you are adding in things after the main points that just feel like they are jabbing at your spouse. Trust me, I get it. The pain sucks and you want to unleash your reasons behind everything."
Thank you for pointing out to me that the fine points are a way of my unleashing- I had not recognized that. 

In my mind, I am not trying to jab him, but trying to present my requests to him in such a way that he can clearly see why I am asking these tasks to be completed.

My objective is to make sure that he recognizes that it's not because I am lazy, want him to just do everything for me, am demanding that he work himself to the bone and fulfill my every whimsical need or want, or just throwing things at him so that he can take on the role as my personal assistant... I just need some help with things that I cannot do on my own.

If I had my old life with all of my friends, acquaintances, coworkers, and family, I wouldn't need him for any of this, basically -I could have just picked up the phone and it would be all be done by now. But I can't do that now. Plus, I think these are good exercises in him showing me that he cares about me and my well-being.

But you are right, when I read it now through that perspective, it does read like I am unleashing.
I will not do that anymore in any of my lists in the future, thanks for helping my communication skills become more positive and productive.

"I also saw his responses, which had a sarcastic tone to them." 
THANK YOU, JESUS FOR HAVING SOMEONE ELSE SEE EXACTLY WHAT I SAW!

"I would suggest that you both have a mediator to help you work on communicating better because at this time I can feel the hurt and irritation on both sides. Both of you need to feel safe with one another and that starts with actively listening to one another and repeating back what the other person said. "
I would love to, thanks for encouraging this step which I am sure will move us in a positive direction.

"The behavior list- I'd say you need absolute honesty."
I agree 100%, thank you!

"Id also say he needs a brother in his life who is going to give him the truth in love, keep him accountable to his actions, and encourage him. It doesn't sound like there's someone in his life like that at this time."
He gave me the distinct and specific impression that he had this in place, but now I have no idea if he really does or not. He may have been lying about it.


Ladystrong, you are brilliant and it seems well-versed in all of this.
Thank you so much for reaching back to me, I hope you know how much it means to me.
Thank You. 
You made tons of very valid points and also directed me to look at changing a way that I am communicating through these lists. Thank you.

Hey, LM & thanks for your input I appreciate it.

"I would also add, try not to read into his motives or judge the state of his heart."
That's great advice, only God truly knows his heart.

All I can do is continue praying that his motives are revealed to me through the way that he ACTS.
So far, I feel that is what has kept me grounded in reality in dealing with his PA so I can get an honest and true reading on where he really is with that.

"To be perfectly honest, there seems to be a lot of curt, harsh tone and judgement on both sides of your marriage."
This is unfortunately true.

I am finally able to express years of frustrations to someone other than my husband, and am utilizing the forum for this right now.
It may not be as productive in getting my husband and I immediately back under the same roof, but I think that it is crucial for my healing to start letting myself express how things over the years have affected me and made me feel.
It needs to come out so that I can heal and move on.
I also really need to know at this point that my emotions and feelings are validated in some way.
I have spent so many years feeling the opposite.

When I read that, I hear: "Don't dare be honest about how much things hurt you! That's not productive right now!", but I know that's not the truth.
That is just my insecurity in the effects of expressing my true feelings.

I am ready to let go of the curt, harsh tone that I have been letting myself release.
I am ready to let all of that negativity go, in the name of JESUS!! Ready to move on to more positive thoughts and actions!

"I would re-iterate what I said earlier, that choosing to give the benefit of the doubt is crucial, and it seems neither of you are there yet. It has to start with someone."
I am confused by this and am having trouble seeing what exactly I need to change regarding this. Please help me understand what I can do to improve.

Each time he has wanted another chance at this, I have given him a clean slate and totally and completely given him the benefit of the doubt.
I have been doing this for years.

Then it all comes crashing down when it is revealed that he has been less than honest with me. Then the cycle repeats. (You know how it goes)
It's not easy to continue handing out the trust and benefit of the doubt when every single time, you end up getting manipulated and lied to.

Do you mean that maybe he is not giving the benefit of the doubt that he deserves love or something? I don't know.

I have tried in this latest correspondence to show that I am more than willing to give him these opportunities to ACT and show me that he actually wants to improve things between us. This would be pointless if I was not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in his motives. I am always sincerely praying and hoping that he is being genuine- I wouldn't want it any other way! The other way that I have been experiencing everything SUCKS! I want things to be better and strive to get there by giving him the benefit of the doubt that he is genuine about change. I am confused on what I need to change to make this whole "benefit of the doubt" thing better on my side. Yes, I acknowledge past instances when he shouldn't have gotten the benefit of the doubt. But I am always willing to try again.... What else can I do?

"I hope this doesn't seem harsh. I'm not talking about forgiveness, or just giving another chance. I mean instead of assuming the other person is being uncaring, why not assume their harsh tone is coming from their place of hurt and fear?"
No problem! Even if I did think it was "harsh", I understand that is not your intention - it's just the way I am reacting to it.

I have no idea if this is directed at me, my husband, or both of us. (I know it is obviously all kind of directed at both of us...)

The way I feel about it is that my husband's actions demonstrate to me that he doesn't care. (I am not talking about his PA here)
I am trying to change my perception of this reality by explaining exactly why I feel this way and giving a clear & precise opportunity for him to DO something to SHOW me that he is interested in being a dependable partner in the marriage. It's already hard enough when you throw PA into the mix.

I just want him to show me that there is reason why we are married other than we have some paperwork.
My heart has been broken and trampled.
It's not easy for me.

"You two seem so afraid of each other (and rightly so) that you refuse to believe the effort is genuine."
I am confused by this, also. 

Any effort he verbally tells me about, I am encouraging of and tell him that I am proud of him etc etc
If I didn't believe his effort was genuine (based on all of my previous experiences with him), I wouldn't do this....
I do this because I really want to believe that he is being genuine! I want him to get healthy and get back to life with me!
Otherwise I'd file the paperwork, pick myself up, and move on! Why even bother trying if I don't have faith that things will change?
Life is too short!! All of this eats up so much time!! I am ready to move on! Let's go!! Let's make some positive changes and get back on track!
(Same thing I have been saying for years now.)

"I totally get it, I've been around this merry go round for 14 years."
Oh dear. How would I be able to do this merry go round for that long? I don't think I'd be able to stay healthy enough to make it through. 
You are a pretty strong woman.

"If he's still trying, then he does care, whether you feel like it or not."
Precisely! 

"His responses to this list struck me as being very curt and uncaring. That is ok. Nothing is perfect. I'll take what I can get at that point, even if it's only simple chores around here getting done."

I absolutely 100% do NOT feel like he cares. At all.

But like I said, I'll take what I can get at this point.
(A true testament that once again, I am willing to put my feelings on the back burner and go without the emotional support, love, and affirmation that I need from my husband right now and just desperately cling to any true, honest ACTION he can muster up to do for me to show me that I matter to him.)

I don't pretend to know his heart, only God can reveal that to me by his actions.

"His way to express that care is still lacking, but if he didn't care, he wouldn't even attempt to fix this."
I believe that when he truly humbles himself and fully surrenders to God that he will find it easier to express that he cares.

Do you think that this is possible? 
I hope so.

By giving him all of these opportunities to SHOW me in some way that he actually cares about me, I am trying to determine if he is interested in fixing this at all.

If he comes at me with a harsh tone and an argumentative spirit, like he did the other day, all I can do is accept that this is all stemming from the stresses of his PA and wait for him to instead SHOW me some caring love, instead.
What else can I do?

Because right now, I feel nothing directly from him that is encouraging to me.
In any way, shape, or form.

I feel lost, alone, devastated, and just clinging to Jesus. 



*** I need to be more careful about using words like "every" and "always".
Maybe it's possible that things aren't as cut and dry in reality as I process and remember them in my brain.
I should remember that for the future... ***

I just read your post again and I saw you wrote trust and benefit of the doubt together. I may have also confused those two...I'll clarify what I mean.

To me, the benefit of the doubt is assuming his intentions are pure. It's about assumptions. You said you assume he's lying...that can be pretty damaging. And I get it, he's lied a lot in the past. And if you catch him in a lie, that's obvious. But if he tells you he's been sober for a week, you should believe that he has been, instead of just assuming he's still lying. He was honest about his last acting out, so from now on, if he says he's sober, congratulate him. If he really is sober, he'll be encouraged. If he really isn't sober, what does it matter? He'll see you're willing to believe him, and if he is really trying to change, he'll see that you're willing to give him a chance. Hopefully he has the wisdom to not take advantage of it.

Also, if he really is sober, but you refuse to believe him and accuse him of lying, then he's gonna feel hopeless. He'll think there's no point in even trying, if you won't even believe him. I decided the possibility of discouraging him when he was trying was damaging enough to our recovery that I was willing to take the risk of being gullible and deceived. If he deceived me, he was only hurting himself, and delaying gaining my trust, because it's Jesus I'm trusting in.

That's the benefit of the doubt.

Trust is a whole new ball game. Trust does not automatically follow assuming good intentions. Trust is only built by a show of consistent trustworthy behavior. Believing he meant to do good is not trusting him, it's just believing he has a good heart. You should only trust him with your heart when he shows he is trustworthy.

I always assume my husband is doing his best for me, even when it seems so far from the truth. Like I said, 14 years, and his last acting out was about two months ago. No, I do not trust my husband. I know he could fall again at any moment. We are now working to build emotional intimacy first, and then go back to physical intimacy. It's hard, since we haven't really had much emotional intimacy our whole marriage, other than the rare glimpse of sunshine during counseling or the marriage studies we've taken. I've trusted him and been burned more times than I can count. And I won't trust him so easily this time, that's the price he pays. Trust means to lean on, like sitting on a chair and trusting it won't fall down. My trust is in God alone, so even when my husband falls, it doesn't devastate me personally anymore, but it does demolish my trust in hm. In a healthy marriage, you need to be able to lean on each other, and we aren't there yet. But when he tells me something, I believe it is his intention to fulfill his word. If he says he didn't look at anything online, I believe him. It's my hope that, since he is a good-hearted person, my belief will motivate him to keep trying. I need to try to be a safe place for him, too.