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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2010 4:49:21 GMT -7
Hi. I used to be addicted to porn, until I read and understood this book and applied its solutions to my life.OPEN TO BLISS by Omid Mankoohis blog sagehope.wordpress.comI understood about mind manipulations within porn, and why they are so powerful, and how to disempower them. I learned how my mind works, and how to disengage my mind from their influences. I highly recomend this book, since its the best straight forward knowledge I found about the actual solution to it that explains the dynamics of the problem and the solution so specifically. I bought this book for my husband! Hoping he reads it!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2010 6:14:39 GMT -7
Not to put too fine a point on it, but there are probably better things for your husband to read. Patrick Carnes is the expert in the psychological community on sex addiction. Anything of his is good. I've heard good things from a number of people about "The Porn Trap" by Maltz and Maltz, though I haven't read it myself. Many Christians seem to relate to "Every Man's Battle" and the related books. Craig Nakken is another expert on addiction I've been significantly influenced by. Finally, for me, reading the Big Book "Alcoholics Anonymous" and changing the word "Alcohol" to "Porn" in my mind was a life-changing experience.
Any of those books are by authors with some balance and training in psychology.
By contrast, reading Omid Mankoo's page is an experience of unbelievably grandiose self-promotion, paranoid discussions of mind manipulation, rambling discourses on his years of homelessness and a particular arrest in California, and wild religious syncretism. He's a guy who writes about himself,
"It is indeed rare to find a person who is astute and unbiased in the study, verification and application of spiritual knowledge of various religions."
"At age 15, he came to the United States and for six or seven years he studied Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhism, and Buddhism. All scriptures were helpful in his understanding God, life and morality better. However, guided and taught by God he was introduced to the knowledge contained in the Bhagavad-Gita, which was quite extraordinary for him. It was a great help in his road to uncovering the sources of lust, as well as overcoming it."
"[H]he has put aside dogma, and looked earnestly into the religious scriptures of the world, in order to understand what the intended meaning of the author of the scripture is trying to communicate. He has found deep enlightening truths to permeate all true revelations. He has tested, questioned and analyzed these truths with scrutiny and from various perspectives every step of the way. His first Book “Open to Bliss…†is, the first of a series of books, to be a guide for those with honest minds, who thirst for practical knowledge, about problems which they seem great difficulty to find answers to. In short, these bodies of knowledge are guidance for humanity."
"Confronted with my inner turmoil, about this subject matter, and recognizing the significance, and the tremendous potency of this sexual attraction, I turned all my abilities, honed through the years, to name a few, my skillful attention, diligent tenacity, precise thinking ability, uncompromising honesty, spiritual insight, and knowledge of the inner-workings of the mind, toward solving this mystery. Present here in your hands you have my 242 insights, by which I unravvelled and understood this grand and perplexing mystery, and the methods I applied, to release myself, from the clutches of this multi-headed Dragon. Share this treasure and enrich the world."
Mankoo describes himself as a rare spiritual master who was taught and guided by supreme masters, and describes his book as "Open to Bliss, Sage Hope´s 1st Gift to Humanity, The Definitive & Complete Solution Manual to Sexual Attraction & Addiction."
Modest fellow, ain't he?
He also spends a lot of his autobiographical web page being angry at a particular police officer in California.
Finally, he's been here and on a bunch of other sites engaging in shameless self-promotion.
I've been wrong before, but to me, none of this sounds sensible, balanced, or well-informed. There are lots of wonderful books on sexual addiction and recovery. It seems a shame to me to start with one written by somebody who frankly sounds like a nut case.
Just how it seems to me, of course.
Tim M.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2010 6:59:06 GMT -7
Agreed, Tim. I'm seeing shameless self-promotion here.....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2010 18:23:53 GMT -7
Dear everyone!!!
This roller coaster is absolutely INSANE! I'm so optimistic when my husband and I agree on a course of action. It gives me such hope.
Then BAM!!! There's a slip and a lie within hours of our agreement. Painfully, the hurt and betrayal I feel is not only about the "lie de jour". It also brings back all the hurt and pain of finding out I've been in the dark for 22 years.
How can I do an "emotional disconnect" from my addict? I really thought I was prepared to kick him out the door because he violated my "deal breaker". But then, when faced with having to tell my kids, I backed down. I know that was a big mistake. I should not have stated a consequence that I wasn't prepared to follow through with.
I just feel it would be a such a violation of the motherhood code to intentionally do something that would inflict pain on my children. Is it that we must sit and wait until the pain of this addiction out weighs the pain caused to our children? If I find that causing pain to my children will cripple me, then how can I possibly survive the pain of continuous betrayal?
What kind of "deal breakers" can one put into place when dealing with an addict that has a 30-40 year history? Obviously, sex with other people would be one. But it doesn't seem as if that's an issue right now. No masturbating? No porn? No lies? That's not a realistic expectation for someone new to recovery. Is it?
It would be wonderful if he could trust me enough that he wouldn't need to lie. But he hasn't trusted anyone his entire life.
I really believe my husbands heart was fully into our agreement. My mistake was not giving enough credit and respect to the power this addiction has over him.
It's as if I'm up against a wall and all my decisions are based on what's best for everyone else. Putting myself first will hurt others. I realize that the addiction has interfered with his relationship with the kids. It's impossible for the addiction not to. However, he has always been interested in their lives. They have a great relationship. They spend a lot of time together and he's very supportive of them. While things could have been better without the addiction, I truly don't feel they think they are missing anything from their Dad.
I try to take my own advice and just deal with one day at a time. But every day seems to be the same as the day before. Is this to be my life? It's just so hard not to think of the future and the years needed just to reach a "maintenance" level of sobriety. If this pain is so intense now that I'm often paralyzed, then what will it do to me at time goes on? I'm so drained and exhausted.
I would very much welcome some advice and suggestions that have worked for others.
Thank you,
allalone
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2010 2:52:06 GMT -7
Not to put too fine a point on it, but there are probably better things for your husband to read. Patrick Carnes is the expert in the psychological community on sex addiction. Anything of his is good. I've heard good things from a number of people about "The Porn Trap" by Maltz and Maltz, though I haven't read it myself. Many Christians seem to relate to "Every Man's Battle" and the related books. Craig Nakken is another expert on addiction I've been significantly influenced by. Finally, for me, reading the Big Book "Alcoholics Anonymous" and changing the word "Alcohol" to "Porn" in my mind was a life-changing experience. Any of those books are by authors with some balance and training in psychology. By contrast, reading Omid Mankoo's page is an experience of unbelievably grandiose self-promotion, paranoid discussions of mind manipulation, rambling discourses on his years of homelessness and a particular arrest in California, and wild religious syncretism. He's a guy who writes about himself, "It is indeed rare to find a person who is astute and unbiased in the study, verification and application of spiritual knowledge of various religions." "At age 15, he came to the United States and for six or seven years he studied Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhism, and Buddhism. All scriptures were helpful in his understanding God, life and morality better. However, guided and taught by God he was introduced to the knowledge contained in the Bhagavad-Gita, which was quite extraordinary for him. It was a great help in his road to uncovering the sources of lust, as well as overcoming it." "[H]he has put aside dogma, and looked earnestly into the religious scriptures of the world, in order to understand what the intended meaning of the author of the scripture is trying to communicate. He has found deep enlightening truths to permeate all true revelations. He has tested, questioned and analyzed these truths with scrutiny and from various perspectives every step of the way. His first Book “Open to Bliss…†is, the first of a series of books, to be a guide for those with honest minds, who thirst for practical knowledge, about problems which they seem great difficulty to find answers to. In short, these bodies of knowledge are guidance for humanity." "Confronted with my inner turmoil, about this subject matter, and recognizing the significance, and the tremendous potency of this sexual attraction, I turned all my abilities, honed through the years, to name a few, my skillful attention, diligent tenacity, precise thinking ability, uncompromising honesty, spiritual insight, and knowledge of the inner-workings of the mind, toward solving this mystery. Present here in your hands you have my 242 insights, by which I unravvelled and understood this grand and perplexing mystery, and the methods I applied, to release myself, from the clutches of this multi-headed Dragon. Share this treasure and enrich the world." Mankoo describes himself as a rare spiritual master who was taught and guided by supreme masters, and describes his book as "Open to Bliss, Sage Hope´s 1st Gift to Humanity, The Definitive & Complete Solution Manual to Sexual Attraction & Addiction." Modest fellow, ain't he? He also spends a lot of his autobiographical web page being angry at a particular police officer in California. Finally, he's been here and on a bunch of other sites engaging in shameless self-promotion. I've been wrong before, but to me, none of this sounds sensible, balanced, or well-informed. There are lots of wonderful books on sexual addiction and recovery. It seems a shame to me to start with one written by somebody who frankly sounds like a nut case. Just how it seems to me, of course. Tim M.
Psychology if you do not know already ows a lot to knowledge that and theories which psychologists developed by visiting foreign cultures, and indeed Jung borrowed knowlegde from India in particular.
I do not know, whether the Author Omid Mankoo is indeed a sage or not, or if he has indeed experienced sirituality as he describes it, nor do I know if he is well eductaed in matters of religion. However what I do know is that the knowledge in his book totally explained to me how attraction and addiction occurs. it shows how my mind worked, and showed how I could free my mind from porn. It was an uphill battle, but at least i had some solid information to go on. and I was making progress.
You said 'paranoid discussions on mind manipulation'. That is the crux of the problem. a person is manipulated without the person being aware of it. it is like NLP. neuro linguistic programming. I am sure psychologists know about some degree of mind manipulation, but you do not call them paranoid.
you said "rambling discourses on his years of homelessness" why would you call it a 'discourse' when it is listed in the 'about' section of his blog.
you jokingly commented that 'Modest fellow, ain't he?' suggesting that he isn't modest. I disagree completely. here is a quote from his site from a section named 'You' I will bold a nimportant part.
'You
You, your true nature, your truest nature, your purest nature IS in harmony with peace, togetherness, love, etc. It is in harmony with nature, it is in harmony with the Universe, and for those who believe in God, it is in harmony with God. You are non-different from me (Sage Hope). Your essential nature is sacred and pure. I do not deny my true pristine nature nor do I deny your true pristine nature.
To those who are beginners on the path of sacred knowledge, they might mistakenly perceive that a sage is higher, and more valuable than they are. However, for those for those with great depth of learning they come to slowly but surely realize that their true nature is equal with a saint.
Many people with personal problems (such as anger, lust, judgement, etc.) mistakenly attribute their problems, and their faulty actions to themselves. They mistakenly think that their own faulty actions arise from within themselves. They are not aware of manipulations, trickery and deceitful influences over their body, emotions and mind. They are often not aware that a lack of education leads to possessing these problems. Therefore they fall into the trap of mistakenly thinking that they themselves are the problem.
Time and again, teachers have come to remind you, to educate and instruct you, of your pristine nature. Likewise, time and again teachers have reminded you to stay away from the temptations which alter your original pure consciousness. While people listen to the numerous teachers’ teachings on being wary of not giving in to the nature of mischief, lies and deceits, people mistakenly attribute those temptations as part of their natural self. Partly this is due to a language barrier, and partly due to lack of comprehensive understanding of the teachings. For example, one can speak of the higher nature of man, and the lower nature of man. I think of the higher nature of man as its true nature.
...
Essentially those who seek truth and find it, do so because they are truly seeking. Those who are honest with themselves, open themselves up to receiving knowlegde, they seek and they find. Those who are dishonest with themselves close themselves off to truth, they seek in a limited way, and so limit their understanding because of biases which they have. Had they been well versed in the religion which they are accustomed to they would know passages which describes gaining knowledge and wisdom, and anything truthful from any source is appropriate.
This same argument applies to those who do not believe in God. All that is necessary is for a person to look to see if the knowledge spoken of makes sense, and is verifiable, in daily life. Lastly I wish YOU well. For those who choose to take and enrich themselves with the knowledge revealed in this book and apply it to their lives they are sure to gain victory over all forms of lust. I bid you farewell.'
he also states about himself:
'simple Sage Hope'
I'll give you a quote from his book , he starts out in the FOREWORD section of his book
'Masters (those who have mastered themselves) dissemintae their teachings out of hearfelt compassionfor the masses.'
again this is about his modesty:
in his 'Why I wrote the book section' on the website he states
'My natural behavior is to share, since I see all beings as part of one community. Each of us is equal as any other being. I am not higher than you, nor below you. I am equal with you. So, if I have knowledge I would want to share it.'
also he stated on the website
'I began researching into sexual attraction because it was a puzzle to me and I wanted to figure it out. I had thought of sharing it freely by the internet. The problem is that anyone could then take my ideas and copyright it and ban me from sharing it. Plus, others may present the information not very clearly, not precisely. They may choose to sit on the information and not share it, and distribute it to few, and far in between for a very high price.
It was crucial for me to ensure that the everyday person, from any class of society whether rich or poor would have the ability to access this information. The only way I thought possible, given my limited budget was to publish a book. In this way, they would have proper guidance, and rich information at their fingertips.'
he starts out in his bio firstly acknowledging God as the best teacher
'God is first and foremost, the best and most thorough teacher. Omid is a rare Spiritual Master who has taken as teacher God, with the aid of silence and truth including other scholarly teachers and regarded them as his own'
You stated that the author stated " It is indeed rare to find a person who is astute and unbiased in the study, verification and application of spiritual knowledge of various religions." and based on this and other examples you call him "unbelievably grandiose self-promotion" however, let's finish that quote that you stated.
'It is indeed rare to find a person who is astute and unbiased in the study, verification and application of spiritual knowledge of various religions. However, according to Omid, it should not be rare. He states that every one of us has the ability to understand the rich information in religions. “However, many because of biases, lack of interest, confusion, or lack of time fail to see the messages clearly. It is rather elementary, and that is why every sweet loving child is a true master . Many adults have learned a lot of misinformation that has made their thinking dull and jaded.'
Here is what he states which sheds light on 'what you may see as grandiose' but in fact it is quite different.
On Mastership:
Mastership is about returning to childhood innocence. The Mastership which Omid speaks of, in referring to himself, is one of Mastering himself. Indeed, he declares that each one of us has the ability to Master ourselves. Omid is not fond of titles. He is usually stripping away untruths that are often hidden behind words. However, it is important for him to communicate to you, in some way, of the significance of the knowledge which he possesses and the type of person he is.
In His Own Words:
“ Truthfully, we are all the same, Infinitely Precious, Divine and Phenomenal. An ant in the face of all of existence ought to remain humble, however, in the face of his own existence ought to remain awestruck of this unknown inexplicable life which (s)he isâ€.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2010 3:55:37 GMT -7
Andrew, we're both guests here in somebody else's forum, and I'm not interested in hijacking their thread by continuing the discussion. Could I ask one quick question, though? You've told us a lot about Omid Mankoo = Sage Hope. I'm always more interested in hearing people share their own stories. What can you say about Andrew Wright's journey from addiction to freedom? A better use of this forum might be to start your own thread someplace other than in the wives' section and to share about yourself, not about somebody else.
Or, as I strongly suspect, are you and Omid/Sage the same person?
If you're not Omid Mankoo, then we can certainly continue to talk about recovery in one of the other parts of this forum. We're not going to agree about Omid, but disagreeing about one book doesn't have to come between us. If you are Omid, then I'm not interested in further conversation until you can conduct it honestly. You see, rigorous honesty is a core principle of addiction recovery. It's a sine qua non for sustained sobriety. It's hard for me to see that anyone who is knowingly misrepresenting himself has anything to offer an addict seeking to recover.
To the wives whose forum this is, my apologies for provoking this distraction. I won't post further replies here, and I invite Andrew to move any further comments to a separate thread, maybe in General Discussion.
Peace,
Tim M.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2010 4:04:09 GMT -7
Thank you, Tim. Your thoughtful posts are always welcome.
My best, DW
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2010 5:52:28 GMT -7
Hi Everyone,
It's been a while since I last posted. I've been taking some time to get my head cleared. My husband and I have been on this roller coaster of promises, lies and confrontations for the longest time. Even despite setting firm boundaries that we both agreed upon, the lies continue.
I've gotten fed up with the "words" and now for some reason, only see the "actions". Situations have occurred in the past few weeks where I should have been the main focus. True to form, I was always an afterthought. When standing up for myself, I was told how I was being selfish and should be thinking of others. While the details of these "situations" are long and tedious, believe me, I was anything else but selfish.
The emotional turmoil I've been experiencing is just not right. The complete despair, uncontrollable crying and total disappointment have turned me into an unrecognizable person and to say the least, not a great mom. I've seen how my emotional turmoil has affected the kids. I'm just not available for them. In some respects, I've turned into my husband.
I was the one who hit rock bottom a couple of weeks ago. I wrestled with my decision for the longest time and finally decided he had to leave. We sat at our kitchen table with our children and told them Dad was moving out. I know I've hurt my children and I resent my husband for putting me in a position where I felt there was no other choice.
The very next day, as a family, we all went looking for apartments for him to rent. I wanted the kids to see that this was not going to be a hostile arrangement. More importantly, my husband had to realize that this was no idle threat. We allowed a week of preparation to give the kids an opportunity to adjust to the idea. He moved out 5 days ago.
He lives close by and sees the kids when everyone's schedule will allow. We still talk but our conversations are very "polite" and we're definitely walking on eggshells. We discussed that very thing yesterday and his response was "I don't know what I'm supposed to do. You kicked me out. I resent you for that". I just find it amazing that he resents "ME"! It was yet again, another reminder of how he is focused on himself and only himself. And that he doesn't see that!
The beauty of that conversation was that I was immediately able to recognize the his selfishness and end the conversation. I didn't try to reason with him, I didn't try to explain my position, I didn't try to point out where he was wrong. I didn't waste my breathe. I didn't fool myself into thinking I got through to him. And that means, I won't be disappointed. That in itself, is progress for me!
All these months, I've been reading and reading, talking and talking, learning and learning. All with the hope and goal of a fulfilling future. It wasn't wasted time since I learned a lot about BOTH of us. The problem was that I was spending much, much more time than he was. You can't build a house alone, and that's just what I was. So after the last box of his belongings was loaded into the car, I began to settle into MY room. All the SA books, all the s-anon books, all the marriage books have been put away and now the only thing at the bedside is a Sudoku! I need a break and I'm taking it.
I had many conversations with my therapist before asking him to leave. We talked of the boundaries that had been set and how they were broken. We talked about the agreed consequences of breaking those boundaries. And we talked about my reluctance to follow through. All these months, she kept saying "I can't make that decision for you". She was right. I had to get to MY rock bottom before I could follow through. The decision was my own. There is a sense of peace, calm and quiet right now. It's refreshing!
I don't know what tomorrow will bring. But right now I feel as if I'm actually practicing what I've "intellectually" spoken of....taking it one day at a time. And today is a good day. The weather is gorgeous and there are no tasks on the calendar. My plan is to hang out with the kids, make a great dinner and just do whatever we feel like.
Thanks for listening! My prayers and blessing for us all!
AllAlone
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2010 7:37:21 GMT -7
Dear Allalone,
He resents you? HE resents YOU? He resents you for kicking him out? Oh, that's rich.
Congratulations for reaching the decision. May you find peace.
My best, DW
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2010 8:52:01 GMT -7
Hi AllAlone,
I'm sorry that things are not going better, but applaud you for setting and sticking to your boundaries.
I pray that he might still choose to seek freedom from his sin.
TruthSeeker
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2010 5:17:02 GMT -7
Hi All, I haven't posted in some time, but I have been reading all your posts and am grateful that this forum is here for me to learn through your experiences. My husband has been out of our home for 3 weeks. He has an apartment nearby and is able to see the kids whenever he or they want. Sometimes I think his relationship with them is actually better. Now it's just him and the kids a lot of the time. We have had some serious heart to heart conversations lately regarding his childhood sexual abuse and the family dynamics that were present at the time. With his mind, he thinks like an adult....knowing it wasn't his fault. With his heart, he is still a victim...a bad person who is unworthy of love. In a recent conversation with our therapist she stated that it's as if he is trying to sabotage himself. A self fulfilling prophecy of sorts. "Since my wife kicked me out, it proves that I don't deserve love". He is so deep in his own "muck" that it's heartbreaking. The saddest part is that while he talks with his brain, he acts with his hearts true feelings. Nothing has changed by him moving out other than his address. He still acts out, visits porn shops, lies about attending meetings and lies about just everything else. We are approaching the end of the road. Evidently, he is not able to handle this with all the resources that are available to him now. About the only thing left for me to do is to insist that he participate in an inpatient sexual addiction recovery program. While I can insist, I know he must make the final decision. I have arranged with our therapist a meeting to discuss this very issue with my husband next week. I don't imagine he will receive my suggestion with open arms but I can no longer endure the lies, deceit and manipulation. I'm also feeling that I am at the point where our children need to be told. And that, my friends, is the main reason for this post. I need guidance and suggestions from all of you. I have talked with my therapist and am reading all I can. My children are ages 20, 17 and 14. Not babies to say the least, but they are still my babies. I really don't know which way to go with this. Here are some of my thoughts. Arguments for telling them:
[*]I don't think it's fair that they are being lied to all the time [/*] [*]These are secrets that will be more painful when discovered. [/*] [*]They will ultimately discover these secrets [/*] [*]They need to know we are all human and that everyone has "issues" [/*] [*]It's not fair that my husband can continue his double life at our expense [/*] [*]My husband will now have to be accountable to his children Arguments for NOT telling them: [/*]
[*]By not telling them, is it wrong to want them to have a life free from this chaos? [/*] [*]We were all in the dark for 22 years and it hasn't impacted them (keep in mind that he has been a good father-spending time with them, being involved. I know he could have been better, but as a father, he's been pretty good) [/*] [*]Telling them will force me into action. I cannot let them know and do nothing. They need to see that this is wrong and they no one should have to live with these circumstances. This may ultimately mean divorce, selling our home, etc. [/*] [*]They will have to deal with very adult issues. [/*] [*]This will destroy their image of their father. [/*] [*]Is it right for a mother to break her children's hearts? [/*] [*]THIS WILL BREAK MY HEART![/*] So, I am asking for help. Should I tell them? What should I tell them? I am desperate for your opinions and the reasons for those opinions. Let me thank you all in advance for your help. This forum has been very helpful over the last several months. All Alone
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2010 7:08:29 GMT -7
[*]Hi Allalone,[/*]
Your counselor is probably a great soundingboard for these questions.
My thoughts are pretty theoretical, as my husband and I worked through things, and only our two younger kids, as far as I know, know that there was an issue with porn, though not the details. So with that disclaimer...
[*]
[/*][*]"I don't think it's fair that they are being lied to all the time" [/*] [*]Have either of you lied to them, or just been vague about the truth, i.e. "Mom and Dad have some things we are trying to work out." [/*] [*]"These are secrets that will be more painful when discovered." [/*] [*]You are right. They will be painful at any time. Waiting will not make them less painful. If he does agree to a residential program, though, you may wish to evaluate the results for a time after his return. If he does experience freedom, and you are able to stay together, you can simply say that things were able to be worked out. [/*] [*]"They will ultimately discover these secrets" [/*] [*]Maybe, or maybe not. If he continues acting out, you're right. [/*] [*]"They need to know we are all human and that everyone has "issues"" [/*] [*]Do they not already know that? [/*] [*]"It's not fair that my husband can continue his double life at our expense" [/*] [*]Yes, if he persists, they will need to be told something, even if it is as broad as Dad is struggling with addiction, and I cannot permit addictive behavior in our home."[/*] "My husband will now have to be accountable to his children"
[*]Accountable? He would have to face them and own responsibility for the disruption of family life, if that's what you are referring to. [/*] [*]
[/*][*]"By not telling them, is it wrong to want them to have a life free from this chaos?" [/*] [*]We all want to protect our kids from the uglier parts of the world, but eventually that is no longer possible. [/*] [*]"We were all in the dark for 22 years and it hasn't impacted them (keep in mind that he has been a good father-spending time with them, being involved. I know he could have been better, but as a father, he's been pretty good)" [/*] [*]The light is impacting all of you now. [/*] [*]"Telling them will force me into action. I cannot let them know and do nothing. They need to see that this is wrong and they no one should have to live with these circumstances. This may ultimately mean divorce, selling our home, etc." [/*] [*]Yes, it will. That's why the timing is important--only when you are firmly convinced about the actions to take. [/*] [*]"They will have to deal with very adult issues." [/*] [*]They will have to do so for the rest of their lives. With the youngest being fourteen, they are at the point where they will be dealing with other adult issues, if not this one. Unfortunately, our kids are always more knowledgeable than we give them credit for. [/*] [*]"This will destroy their image of their father." [/*] [*]It will alter it, to be sure, and the first reactions may be volatile, but hopefully they will mostly continue to relate to him as the father they love. Yes, if divorce comes, and moving is necessary, there will be anger about the changes they have to deal with, but there would be anger even if they do not know what is causing the divorce. [/*] [*]"Is it right for a mother to break her children's hearts? [/*] [*]THIS WILL BREAK MY HEART!" [/*] [*]It is your husband who has broken all of your hearts, whether or not everyone has been informed yet.[/*] Praying for you...
TruthSeeker
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2010 9:31:33 GMT -7
My situation is only partly relevant to your question. I'm the addict in the family, I'm in recovery, and we've stayed together. In case it helps, though, let me talk about why I've shared my story with my kids. (Truth in advertising: at this stage, my two older children know that I'm in recovery for sex addiction. The two younger ones know only that I go to counseling and some sort of support group meetings for things having to do with my feelings and with my anger toward them.)
To my mind, the central reason my kids need to know about my addiction is to protect themselves.
Addictions tend to run in families. Whether that's for genetic reasons or because the family dysfunctions of our youth predispose us to create similarly dysfunctional families isn't clear to me, but I know that my meetings are full of children of alcoholics and other addicts.
My kids are therefore significantly more likely than the general population to develop addictions of their own or to end up married to addicts. In order to keep themselves safe, they need to know that, just as they need to know that my heart disease places them at risk. My psychological history is their psychological history, and they have a right to know it in order to understand themselves and to keep themselves safe. My story isn't mine to hide; it's also their story.
All this is especially true because I haven't been a father without flaws. I've done many good things with my kids, but I've also neglected them for a combination of work and porn, and I've abused them with outbursts of anger toward them or others that have been a part of my addictive cycle. That's something I suspect they'll be unpacking for a long time, and something that has led in them to issues of anxiety and depression and perfectionism. Understanding and validating themselves requires that they understand the family in which they grew up.
Further, I think that it's really important that we learn better as a family to communicate feelings and who we really are. One piece of honest sharing is not continuing to cover up the elephant in the room.
That's why I think that it isn't a question - my kids need to know.
As I've said, of course, my situation differs from yours in significant ways. Take what's useful, and leave the rest.
Tim M.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2010 10:10:42 GMT -7
Dear Allalone,
I have one daughter who just turned 22 and a son who will be 20 in a few days. My daughter knows all, my son knows some.
A couple of weeks ago, my husband was unbelievably thoughtless, came home late, his route home took him past NUMEROUS porn shops, he was going to be away on a business trip the next week, and we had guests waiting for his arrival so that we could have dinner...........
I LOST IT. I was absolutely convinced he was at a porn shop, shopping for his week away from me. He swears he wasn't, but I don't trust him as far as I could throw him.
As a result of the screaming that ensued, my daughter knows everything. It was a "vocabulary increasing event." My husband admitted to her that he was addicted to pornography and that we were going to marriage counseling as a result. She has only known for two weeks. I told her in no uncertain terms that "no self-respecting woman would tolerate this and the sum total of my frustration with your father overwhelmed my coping mechanisms so I exploded." I told her that she could ask me anything at any time and I would tell her what I know. I told here there would not be any more secrets in the family.
My son was not present for the screaming session, so he does not know the whole story, even though I offered to tell him. He simply knows that we are going to marriage counseling to work through some issues.
My daughter was crushed, but the tension in the house seems to be at a lower level that before. She now knows the score and it doesn't seem to have impacted her relationship with her father much, if at all. She does seem much more patient with me, now. She was being rather snippy with me.......no more. She seems to now understand why I have zero patience for his nonsense.
I think honesty is the best policy.........at an age appropriate level.
My best, DW
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2010 4:13:44 GMT -7
UPDATE!
My husband agreed to more intensive treatment for his sex addiction problem. Our area, however, does not have inpatient residential facilities for sex addiction. We have found a hospital program that allows for intensive outpatient therapy, 4 days a week, 3 hours per day. It's 15 minutes from his job and his boss has been very supportive (Divine intervention?) Coupled with weekly therapist meetings, weekly SA meetings and regular visits to his psychiatrist, I believe my husband now has every available resource to him.
He has attended 3 of those outpatient therapy sessions and seems to be enjoying them. He says he's learning something new about himself all the time. They are not warm and fuzzy meetings and the group leader as well as the members are all quick to point out the realities of his situation. In his words...."you're there to do the work and they expect you to do it"....."no one lets you off the hook".
When I first talked to him about the need for more treatment and that I was going to tell the kids regardless of his decision, he was very angry. We haven't told the kids yet but he seems to be warming up to the idea. Ideally, I would like the information to come from him. I think that would be better for the kids.
The other night he apologized to the kids for an outburst that happened last year. He explained that he was fixated on a project that had to be "PERFECT" because that was the only way he could ever win his own father's favor. He went on to praise and thank them for the great job they did!
I still feel they need to be told and we are working with our therapist for the "right words". He still lives outside the home and will continue to do so until I see some "real" change. I'm not naive enough to think that this will happen overnight. He has been living with this addiction for a great many years.
I'm walking cautiously!
Thanks to all
allalone
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