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Post by Will on Jun 16, 2017 22:12:11 GMT -7
Hey guys, does anyone have any experience of these to share? I have come from a very 'puritanical' theological background (since I was saved at 27 yrs old), and have always been very sceptical of this kind of thing. I was a Calvinist for the first 10 years of being a follower of Jesus, although I was a member of a CCM megachurch for a couple of years and volunteered there (before finding out they were not really what they seemed to be!) and now attend a Baptist Church where our venerable old retired Pastor had a ministry for decades investigating 'speaking in tongues'. He would find people who spoke the language that people spoke tongues in, and then with a few witnesses, prayerfully record what they said. He is a wonderful man of God and this was his testimony.- In over a decade, investigating around 80 tongues-speakers, not a single one was speaking praises to God in their tongues. Every single one was speaking blasphemies against God! So that put me off that kind of thing even more! But, more recently a dear friend of mine who used to attend the same Church as me (not the megachurch or the Baptist one but another one), who has a very sad history of abuse and drug addiction, started going to a tongues-speaking pentecostal 'deliverance' ministry. I was fully sceptical about it, BUT, the next time I saw her a few months later, there was a BIG difference! I mean a really noticeable before-and-after difference. For the first time she was maintaining sobriety and still is. Now it was not so supernatural one-time only as that might sound, but there she had definitely been 'delivered' of something oppressive and bonding, by months of receiving Holy Spirit prayer and healing. She is still doing great. If it wasn't for this fruit, I would not even be thinking about it, but now I am. I went to her Church one time, and hated it! A lot of egotism and some new-age stuff in there like how Christians shouldn't be ill, word of faith stuff, etc. However there was also some good and powerful stuff in what the Preacher said about rebuking spirits of wickedness and standing on the Word of God with confidence. After this and hearing a lot of testimonies I can definitely identify that there is some stuff I need to be 'delivered' of, that I myself am not really having much success with! And that maybe needs the Holy Spirit to get it out of me. Has anyone heard anything about this ministry: ellel.org/usa/about/about-ellel-usaAdvice from anyone who has any history with this kind of thing would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Will |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 8:48:10 GMT -7
This may not be the advice you are looking for but the church is just a sanctuary.
It doesn't matter where you go or who prays for you as long as they are speaking from the Bible. The Holy Spirit is not bound to a person or a church and going to a specific location does not mean there is more Holy Spirit there.
The church you need is inside you. If you truly surrender you can pray alone in the middle of a field and God will work in you.
Find some good prayer warriors that you can sit down and pray with. If you listen God will guide you.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 12:01:38 GMT -7
I don't have experience with this but it interests me so I'm going to talk anyway. I've been in the Mennonite church all my life so far and if you know anything about it, it's less experience based and a more about obedience to scripture, etc. So I at times felt starved for an spiritual experience that "feels good" too; after all the Bible talks about speaking in tongues, lifting holy hands, and other things that sound experience oriented. One of the most life changing things I ever did was read Dr. Grant Mullen's book "Why Do I Feel So Down When My Faith Should Lift Me Up". Reading that book helped me be honest about how I felt and also revealed how the warfare we're in is spiritual, physical, and psychological. The devil wants to get us in all those areas but God has resources in all of them as well. Mario Bergner in his testimony of being freed from homosexuality says that several demons were cast out of him in the process. I sometimes wonder if we get mixed up on terminology and if we could witness a person's experience it might seem legitimate, while just the hearsay sounds flaky. Isn't the ultimate test a change of life, though, like your friend experienced? I believe like gloggen that for the Christian church, or spiritual experience, is wherever you find it, but I believe there's special power to be had in sharing together. And some may be gifted with special healing abilities.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 16:33:48 GMT -7
Will one thing that I have learned is that you cannot put God in a box. He works in all ways. I actually follow a Calvinist preacher on YouTube that believes in deliverance because he had witnessed it and been involved with it. I will see if I can find the exact video where he talks about it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 16:44:45 GMT -7
I am pretty sure it's this sermon...if not it's still an excellent one to listen too. Jeff Durbin is a knowledgeable preacher. He also has run ins with the occult because his ministry focuses on stopping abortion.
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Post by Will on Jun 17, 2017 22:46:29 GMT -7
Wow thanks guys. That is all really useful. Gloggen and Amymine you're right, of course. You can't put God in a box and any 'box' is going to depend on the spirit that is moving in it at the time I guess. I like that because I strongly agree that the Kingdom of Christ is 'relational' not 'institutional' - it's all about the people, basically, and the spirit in them. But it would still be nice to know more about 'how' this stuff happens if it does.
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Post by Will on Jun 17, 2017 23:44:40 GMT -7
Great sermon Amymine! He says pursuit of sin is adolatry - false worship. That it's not an addiction problem, its a worship problem!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 14:50:22 GMT -7
Great sermon Amymine! He says pursuit of sin is adolatry - false worship. That it's not an addiction problem, its a worship problem! And he is right. Because how do we get rid of the sinful thoughts when they Enter? Worship, prayer, scripture. You do those things and the urges, thoughts, temptations flee. I love listening to Jeff. He is solid in his teachings and has lived what he preaches. |
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KevinesKay
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Post by KevinesKay on Jun 20, 2017 9:40:04 GMT -7
I came from a deliverance healing background. It was the repetative kick in the back head experience of relapsing into porn that finally got me to accept that God wasn't going to just ZAP me into holiness.
I've seen it happen, but for most of us PAs, the process is much longer and more intense. That's alright, rewards are better when you work for them.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 13:52:33 GMT -7
I came from a deliverance healing background. It was the repetative kick in the back head experience of relapsing into porn that finally got me to accept that God wasn't going to just ZAP me into holiness. I've seen it happen, but for most of us PAs, the process is much longer and more intense. That's alright, rewards are better when you work for them. Same here Kevin. I believe you can be zapped into holiness and have seen it happen but most of us have to go the longer more intense route. |
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Post by Will on Jun 27, 2017 4:32:57 GMT -7
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teetop
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Post by teetop on Jun 28, 2017 9:22:59 GMT -7
Well, Will, the greatest problem we all run into is a lack of discernment thanks mainly from our feelings.
The second area comes from what we are taught in whatever denomination we tend to belong too.
When I was a child, about 8, I started going to a Fourth Square Church and then to an Assembly's of God Church where some members spoke in tounges.
A couple of times a member of the Church would start to speak in tounges would be stopped by the pastor and the reason given. Both times the reason was given was, it was disruptive and no interpreter was present. I spent years studying different Denominations and their teachings on this very subject along with a couple of other subjects. I didn't like what I was finding out. But enough from me, so I will suggest you listen to David Pawson on, 'Charismatics and Evangelicals,' a six-part teaching and one of the best I've ever heard on the subject.
.Charismatics Characterised.
.Evangelicals Examined.
.Theology and Scripture .
.Initiation and Glossolalia .
.Ministry and Worship .
.Holiness and Unity .
I hope this helps as it is so easy to follow our desires(Itching ears) and not put our own beliefs to the test of scripture.
Virgil
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 13:27:07 GMT -7
Hey Tee! Long time no see. How are you Doing? How are your plants coming along?
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teetop
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Post by teetop on Jun 30, 2017 23:04:42 GMT -7
It is growing but we didn't plant as much as we'ed like to have had.
Harvested our first Yellow straight-kneck squash day before yesterday but looks like were not going to get our first tomato before the 4th.
We currently are having neighbor problems and Sandy and I have been under the weather some this year.
I've been around though, reading and thinking on the many postings here along with learning how to operate an E-reader.
I was able to get Mike Genung's 'The Road To Grace' and '100 Days On The Road To Grace.'
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Post by Will on Jul 1, 2017 2:26:53 GMT -7
Hi Teetop,
thanks for that recommendation, will check it out. Am a big fan of Davey P and have listened to his 'Bible teaching' (he very accurately and humbly states that he is not a Preacher, but rather has the different and more ordinary gifting of a teacher - I think he is right). Have been particularly blessed by his series' 'The normal Christian Birth' and 'The Book of Revelation' - that last one is a ten-part video series on Youtube - amazing!
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