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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2016 12:31:54 GMT -7
Today people think they have to ask God to forgive them for the sins that God is no longer charging to their account in the first place. Ministers of righteousness would have people believe God is not totally reconciled in his mind. The great usurper and his fellow usurpers want to keep sin on the table of God’s justice today, as much in the age of grace as he has in the other ages. Just knowing that I'm forgive now, really has help me with what was stolen from me from my youth.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2016 19:58:01 GMT -7
Reconciliation and sanctification are not one and the same, they are two different truths. A sanctified identity in Christ comes not as a result of behavior, it comes as a result of belief. What an identification God has given you, every believer’s sanctification comes by way of your union-identification with Christ Jesus. We find the amazing and comforting truth that God’s love for those who are joined to his son, is the same unalterable and unending love God has for his son.
The judicial decree of rightness God grants to those who believe is called justification, God alters your identity by removing you judicially in God’s mind from an identification with the first Adam and now you are judicially identified with the last Adam (Christ Jesus). That joining itself is where sanctification comes into play; sanctification is not a process, it is a past tense accomplishment that can never be revised, reduced, or retracted.
You have also been sanctified or set apart in that you were identified with Christ by God’s resurrection power, baptized into Christ at the point of your belief. You need to look at sanctification from the standpoint of who is doing the setting apart. It is entirely a work of God for the believer, not a work of the believer for God. No effort of the flesh could accomplish it, no effort of the saint can add to it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2016 4:44:31 GMT -7
When Paul refers to us as the called, he is referring not just to the fact that God is extending a call to us, an invitation or summons. Paul’s also referring to the fact that God’s calling us to participate in that to which we have been called, the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ is an expression denoting the point when God began to judicially join believers to his son, the Body of Christ is not about program, but about judicial identity.
God forgave us, not because he had to, but because it was his desire too. God accomplished through Christ what we could never do on our own. God did not wait for us to do the first step. God had a choice, Jesus Christ had a choice, and they chose to do it. Christ believed that his sacrifice would settle the sin issue once and for all, and that God would raise him from among the dead.
What an ingenious salvation plan, to take someone else that is righteous and join us to that person. Sin causes a debt to God so large that it can never be paid by ourselves, but the person who knows what Jesus Christ really accomplished, exist in a completely new relationship with God. Justification is a legal act, wherein God deems the sinner righteous on the basis of Christ’s righteousness.
Justification is not a process, but is a one-time act, complete and definitive. God could only declare us to be right on the bases of who and what he is, not on the bases of who and what we would be apart from him. God had to devise a way to see us that way, and the way he devised to do that was by joining us to, hiding us in our perfectly righteous savior, thus freely crediting to our account Christ righteousness.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2016 7:11:37 GMT -7
Question for you....does this justifcation nullify all future sin? Are we called to turn from sin or does justification give us a license to freely choose sin and still be saved?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2016 7:45:36 GMT -7
Question for you....does this justifcation nullify all future sin? Are we called to turn from sin or does justification give us a license to freely choose sin and still be saved? We could look at the righteousness of God, in the sense of righteousness being an attribute of God, God’s righteous character is part of God’s glory. BUT NOW the righteousness of God, apart from the law is manifested; God has provided for people what people desperately lacks, God’s very own perfect righteousness. Inside that gospel message is good news concerning a righteousness that far exceeds the righteousness of any person, no matter how righteous appearing that person may be. The righteousness spoken of in what Paul calls “the gospel of Christ” is no less than than the perfect righteousness that belongs to God himself. Being justified results in an unchanging attitude of peace with God for every believer. Reconciliation has to do with God’s justice being satisfied for sins, and that means all of them and that means for all the world, reconciliation is a sin issue. Justification is something entirely different, it has to do with a judicial decree of the very righteousness of God himself freely attributed to the believer’s account. The avenue of our faith in Christ’s faithful performance on our behalf, rather than peace based upon our performance, results in an unchanging attitude of peace with God for every believer. We now have available for the enjoyment of our everyday experience an everlasting peaceful relationship with God! Justification is unfathomable to the earthly mind, that God could judicially consider you just as his perfectly righteous son. This gift decree of righteousness comes totally apart from any and all human promise, any or all human performance or any or all human production, no human merit of people whatsoever for this free gift. God will never consider people’s works as a payment for God’s justifying declaration.
God is fair in revealing his perfect wrath against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of the human race. In other words, in spite of people’s excuses, in spite of trying to shift the blame for people’s wrath-worthiness, Paul is presenting the evidence that all people of all time justly deserve the wrath of God, because all people are without excuse. It’s not what we deserve that is the issue, because all people deserve the wrath of a perfectly just God.
People glorify themselves by filtering everything they say and everything they do through that screen of self-protection, self-elevation, and self-gratification. No matter what we wish others to believe, we seek to satisfy self first and foremost. It is true of all of us, whether we like to admit it or not. People began their journey with unthankfulness, a lack of appreciation for the true God, and once on that road of a darkened heart, they traveled through such checkpoints as human reasoning and close-mindedness until their wayward course at it’s final destination brought them all the way to what God calls vile affections.
You see, vile affections is nothing more than idolatry at its logical conclusion: the end point of people replacing God with people. Things have not changed from the very beginning of time, we are at the same point today, or rapidly approaching it, that resulted in God giving up on the Gentiles way back in the book of Genesis. They knew about God, they chose not to keep him in their thoughts. The conscience has been present in people since the garden, and knowledge of the reality of God has been present as well.
That is Paul’s point, it is not just that people do these things, the problem is all people are wrath worthy, because all people have minds that are capable of doing these things given enough time or the right circumstances. Anyone of us here are capable of doing what anyone else in this world has ever done. Do you know what these vile affections that Paul is making reference to are called today? An alternate lifestyle. Obviously, unclean hearts, darkened minds attempt to take the shame out of it. The idea is, let’s just get on with life and accept it for what it is. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 5:24:50 GMT -7
Hello newidentity,
Welcome. Now that we're acquainted with your theology, what about you, personally? What's your story? 
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teetop
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Post by teetop on Jul 29, 2017 3:27:05 GMT -7
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 4:17:49 GMT -7
Hey Tee! How are you doing? Wow this is an old thread. You do dig up some of the interesting ones!
The reason I asked the question I did was because the poster's theology seemed a bit skewed to me so I wanted clarification on what they were saying.
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teetop
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Post by teetop on Jul 29, 2017 7:04:04 GMT -7
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Post by Will on Jul 29, 2017 7:27:03 GMT -7
Hey Teetop,
what do you mean about David Pawson? Would be interested to hear as I also listen to a lot of his stuff. Sometimes great, but occasionally think there's a couple of things that make me wonder. Always slightly concerns me that he's more of an intellectual Bible teacher rather than a preacher - he's a bit detached from what he is talking about.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 10:25:02 GMT -7
Tee, I am hanging on. Lots of junk being thrown at me lately and I am not good a dodging. lol
Are you thinking Pawson's teaching is off or just the way you were viewing Things? I have yet to hear anything from Pawson that would make me question his theology. I am going to have to listen to those links since I am struggling with anger and forgiving at the moment.
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Post by Will on Jul 29, 2017 15:55:23 GMT -7
Hey Amy,
you know I think the forgiving thing may be connected to forgiving ourselves, as well. Recently God blessed me to remember a time when I was very young and think I rejected God's help in some way (or at least a kind of memory of that). I was able to repent of it and choose now to accept that help that God offered back then. Anyway I had rejected it because of anger towards God. Pretty instantly after that I was able to be a whole lot nicer to someone close to me who I guess I need to forgive more than anyone else. It was my own anger and in some sense my not having been forgiven for my own actions that was blocking me being able to forgive others.
Also wonder if this process has come about by my intentionally not being so down on myself recently. Heard a sermon that 'if you insult the painting, you insult the painter', so we should never be insulting or negative about ourselves. That is big news to me! I've always been pretty down on myself. This sermon that Ladystrong posted: enewhope.org/videobeta/index.php?videoid=u9sb28dZws0 also says a similar thing that we have to live with ourselves all the time - we can't reject ourselves, we have to accept and validate ourselves.
Not sure whether all that makes sense. Or whether this new development for me will bear fruit. But I was surprised, having been praying for a couple of weeks (for the first time really) to the Lord to show me how to forgive this person, that what brought some change spiritually to the issue was first and foremost something between God and me, not between me and the person. Like with love, we can only give what we have received I guess.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 16:21:53 GMT -7
Yes part of my forgiving journey with my dad was learning how to forgive and love myself. I still can get down on myself and need to be reminded that God doesn't make junk. So your observation makes complete sense, Will.
I just wish it were easy this time around with forgiving my brother. My anger keeps popping up because there isn't a day that goes by where my brother and his needs aren't being pushed at me by others. They expect me to take care of it like I always do. It's driving me nuts... I have enough on my plate just trying to deal with the fall out of having to move and trying to figure out where the funds are going to come from to move and keep all the bills paid.
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