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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 3:03:59 GMT -7
Hi Nikanor
Thanks for sharing. It was good, but I have a little to comment on the start. You write:
"I have often been asked when my faith conversion was. In the past I never knew how to answer that. Now I know. It was on February 1, 2012. There is no doubt in my mind of the date - it was a life changing conversion that only God could do. In the months and years leading up to that date of ‘new life’ I was walking away from God and rebelling, but on that day God took charge and showed me the cross and what it truly means and how serious he is about sin. In C.J. Mahaney’s book “Living the Cross Centered Life†he quotes a member of his church: [indent] “…there was a problem deeper than my outward expressions of sin… I was learning about the sin in my heart and the motives at the root…I vividly remember driving down the road one day, and God opening my eyes to see that I’m a wretched sinner to the very core of my being. In that second I thought, what am I to do?! Instantly I was clearly aware that this is why Jesus Christ came and died on a cross - for me…I laughed out loud, and said “My God, only you could show me what a wretched sinner I am and make it the greatest news I’ve ever heard!†The truth of Jesus’ sacrifice became more real to me than ever before.
[/indent] Our church pastor once preached about the cross and how if we really get the Gospel personally then it goes from black and white to vivid living color. The Gospel and the cross were just black and white images to me until February 1st when the Cross came into Technicolor and HD reality on an I-max screen."
Everything that is inside us is impossible for other people to see, thoughts, feelings, faith and so on, so that if someone share about it, it has to be as specific as possible if it shall be useful for others.
Other people can only relate to what they see. If things are unclear, other people can not relate to it, and actually one can not relate to it oneself if it is unclear. That means if someone has a "testimony" about something that is very fluffy and unclear it is not very much worth; that means that those who have those "testimonies" might not have very much to come with and offer to other people; they don't feel safe, and maybe they get aggressive if other people put their finger on it. They don't have a good life, and they can not offer a good life to others. One can only give what one has oneself; I think that those who doesn't have much security in themselves, can not give much security to others.
If we go to a court, if someone comes with a testimony, it should be as less feelings and interpretation as possible and as much facts as possible, and then other people can draw their own conclusions?
The same with religious testimonies?
If someone is unclear, there are two possibilites. It could be that it is unclear for those who share it; that means it is a weak testimony. Another possibility is that it is clear for the one who shares it, but he/ she doesn't manage to express himself/ herself clearly.
I think you are unclear when it comes to the first lines I have quoted here. You are very sure about a date, and you are very sure that God was involved, that you walked away from Him and so on.. As far as I can see there is an interpretetation here. You have some facts, some actual events, and you interpret something. If you interpret, how can you be so sure? As far as I can see, you interpret, but that means you could also harbour some doubts? I am not saying your interpretation is wrong, but I am not sure you are honest when it comes to that you have no doubts.
We are all humans, we are all weak, and we all have doubts? But that doesn't mean that something is not steady. But humans are not solid, steady and so on? If we say humans are strong, without doubt, steady and solid, we lie? Humans are not that strong according to the Bible if we want to have the Bible as our measure of right and wrong? If we say that the Bible is our measure of right and wrong, it doesn't set humans as very strong? But you present yourself as quite/ very sure, strong? So you are not presenting yourself true according the Bible? You are presenting yourself stronger than the Bible present you, so if the Bible is true about humans, your presentation about yourself is not true?
You also talk about the cross as black and white and with colours. Can you say a little bit more about what you mean with that?
I can only relate to what I can see and touch and so on..
Thanks for a good testimony in many other ways.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 12:22:25 GMT -7
Hello Man,
Welcome to BG. Let me get right to answering your questions. I agree it is difficult to understand and determine what is really going on inside someone else's mind even in their words sometimes. My testimony was given to a group of about 16 men two years ago so I posted it here. You are probably correct there is a disconnect or unsupported. I guess having lived those events and time made them pretty obvious to me. Although I called myself Christian before February 2, 2012 I certainly wasn't living it or producing the fruits, quit the opposite in fact. I was withdrawing, becoming very selfish, angry, wanting to be alone to get back on the computer for my next 'fix', not interacting with my wife or friends, and not attending church. A few days after February 2, 2012 I reached the bottom of my barrel with no job, few prospects for work, no friends, and almost kicked out of the house which would have made me homeless. I turned to God as so many of us do at the bottom of our barrels when we see no way out or through the disaster we have made.
New people came into my life through the church who cared for my well being and not my title or successes. My wife stuck with me, probably more through fear than anything but it all just seems to point to God's work in my life. He saved me from myself through disciplining me (job loss), and putting godly men in my life to make sure I made the turn around. When you understand the cross of Christ and his substitution for my blatant sins and His free gift of grace and forgiveness, how could it be anything other than God regenerating me, giving me a re-birth? I have no doubts. None at all!
All of Christianity and the Gospel message was black and white to me before and now it is in vivid technicolor and HD. In other words, I knew the message before or the words at least but they didn't mean anything to me. I didn't act on those Gospel words so there was no fruit of any kind showing from me in any way - outwardly visible or internally. Now, I understand the Gospel in much more detail, I know Christ and I know what He did for me and I have done nothing to earn it or deserve it. This knowledge is the color and HD part. I never liked to read the bible before but now I read it almost every day and I look forward to my bible reading time - I believe this is evidence too of how it is now color vs. B/W.
We humans are not strong as you say. That is correct. We are sinners and due for God's wrath except that Jesus death on the cross was substituted for our due destruction. The bible says we are saved without merit of our own accord. God tells us in the bible we only need believe in His Son and his atoning sacrifice, confess our sins, and repent and we can then be sure of our salvation. This I believe and so I am sure and without doubt. Yes, I suppose doubts creep up from time to time, which I believe is Satan at work, but I only need read the bible or preach the Gospel to myself the doubt flees away.
I hope this help and I'd be glad to answer additional questions.
Blessings and peace to you,Nikanor
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 4:29:53 GMT -7
Hi Nikamor
I comment inbetween:
You:
"Hello Man,
Welcome to BG. Let me get right to answering your questions. I agree it is difficult to understand and determine what is really going on inside someone else's mind even in their words sometimes. My testimony was given to a group of about 16 men two years ago so I posted it here. You are probably correct there is a disconnect or unsupported. I guess having lived those events and time made them pretty obvious to me. Although I called myself Christian before February 2, 2012 I certainly wasn't living it or producing the fruits, quit the opposite in fact. I was withdrawing, becoming very selfish, angry, wanting to be alone to get back on the computer for my next 'fix', not interacting with my wife or friends, and not attending church. A few days after February 2, 2012 I reached the bottom of my barrel with no job, few prospects for work, no friends, and almost kicked out of the house which would have made me homeless. I turned to God as so many of us do at the bottom of our barrels when we see no way out or through the disaster we have made."
I:
In the last sentence you write "I turned to God as so many of us do"... what do you want to achieve with using the word "we"? Why do you include other people in your testimony? If I shall guess; you are a little bit insecure about your choices, about God and so on and you argue that you do as the others do instead of arguing with what is right/ wrong. Your arguments are what other people do. That's a weak argument because you don't trust God so you do wrong and put your trust in what other people do instead of in God?
You:
"New people came into my life through the church who cared for my well being and not my title or successes. My wife stuck with me, probably more through fear than anything but it all just seems to point to God's work in my life."
I:
This is an interpretation of Gods work.
You:
"He saved me from myself through disciplining me (job loss), and putting godly men in my life to make sure I made the turn around."
I:
This is an interpretation of this being God as far as I can see.
You:
"When you understand the cross of Christ and his substitution for my blatant sins and His free gift of grace and forgiveness, how could it be anything other than God regenerating me, giving me a re-birth?"
I:
Again you guess and interpret? I am not saying your guesses and interpretations are wrong.
You:
"I have no doubts. None at all!"
I:
First you have a lot of guesses and interpretations. then you have no doubts and are absolutely sure? Isn't that a little bit strange?
This is faith; I think it is not wrong to acknowledge what is; if for example thoughts of doubt are there, it is not wrong; what is wrong is to deny those thoughts, and you do that, so you are lying? It was not wrong in the garden of Eden that Adam and Eve got tempted and maybe doubted; at that point nothing wrong had happened? The mistake started when they took a decission, and that decission was that they should listen to the snake, but I think that decission was not taken before it was confirmed by actions; when they acted on it and ate from the tree; before that everything was fine.
If we deny there is doubt, we deny the truth, the facts; when we deny the truth, we deny Jesus if Jesus is who He claims to be, the Truth. So when we deny doubt-thoughts, we deny Jesus and follow satan, the lyer?
And you lye here when you say that you have no doubt? Actually we are all lyers; we all fall apart; you are just one of us?
Another thing is disbelief; That's a different thing; that means to not want to install my life after what is right, not willing to take the right actions? For example not move as far from sin as possible, because one actually doesn't want to live pure?
You:
"All of Christianity and the Gospel message was black and white to me before and now it is in vivid technicolor and HD. In other words, I knew the message before or the words at least but they didn't mean anything to me. I didn't act on those Gospel words so there was no fruit of any kind showing from me in any way - outwardly visible or internally. Now, I understand the Gospel in much more detail, I know Christ and I know what He did for me and I have done nothing to earn it or deserve it. This knowledge is the color and HD part. I never liked to read the bible before but now I read it almost every day and I look forward to my bible reading time - I believe this is evidence too of how it is now color vs. B/W."
I:
I don't think that God can be either proven nor disproven. I think faith might be a gift, but whether one want to receive it or not is a choice eventually being confirmed by actions, but when I take the choice, it doesn't mean there is no doubt-thoghts there. I think it is a lie to say there is no doubt. If one wants to have the Bible as a measure: the Bible doesn't deny doubt-thougts or condemn them for humans? We are eventually condemned for what we do with them, but not for the thoughts?
The Bible doesn't talk about technical proof, but faith, and faith is in our inner life, and our inner life can contain doubt, and that's ok/true? Doubt-thoughts are not wrong, but to deny them are wrong? Actually everyone has them? To deny them is wrong, and those who deny things might not be so trustworthy to other people. If we deny one thing, it might be easy to deny another thing?
If we deny reality, for example deny that doubt exists in ourselves, then we are lyers; then we have problems? Every time I lye, I get problems..?
You:
"We humans are not strong as you say. That is correct. We are sinners and due for God's wrath except that Jesus death on the cross was substituted for our due destruction. The bible says we are saved without merit of our own accord. God tells us in the bible we only need believe in His Son and his atoning sacrifice, confess our sins, and repent and we can then be sure of our salvation. This I believe and so I am sure and without doubt."
I:
Here you say you are without doubt.
You:
"Yes, I suppose doubts creep up from time to time, which I believe is Satan at work, but I only need read the bible or preach the Gospel to myself the doubt flees away."
I:
Here it seems you have doubt sometimes? What is true? Do you have doubt or not?
I think we should acknowledge doubt when it is there; If what we believe in is true, it is not dangeorus. If it is not true, it is good to find out?
You:
I hope this help and I'd be glad to answer additional questions.
I:
Seems to me you are not honest about doubt? It is because your faith is weak? You are afraid your faith will fall apart if things are being checked out? You don't really believe in it? You are afraid that what you believe in is not true and that it will all fall apart if it is being checked out so you try to avoid checking it out instead of daring to check it out? Your faith is so weak? You have so much anxiety/ fear and you don't have much good things to give to others? You are in a prison of fear and you try to give those negative things to others? One can only give what one has? You are in an inner prison of fear and unfreedom, and you try to give that to others?
You:
"Blessings and peace to you,Nikanor"
I:
I think you should be more authentic.
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wiltingiris
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Post by wiltingiris on Mar 7, 2015 11:08:33 GMT -7
Man you are a bully and I do not appreciate the way you treat my friends. Yes that is how I see the people here. I would appreciate that in the future if you do not want anyone to fix you then make sure after you share you write something like do not reply, or no feedback please and we as members will not take time of our valuable lives to give you any of our love. Because each feedback is given with the best intentions out of our love of community and of Jesus Christ our God and savior yes this forum is a Christian forum and we promote Jesus. Jesus, Jesus and more Jesus until you get that he is the answer. Jesus, Jesus and more Jesus until you yes you can see that it is not healing we need but to be in complete submission to him. Jesus, Yes more and more of Jesus. You man and I and all of us in this entire miserable world need more of Jesus. I hope that if this does not help you , you keep it to yourself. Nikanor is the most awesome and wonderful admin here and he puts a lot of valuable time in to answering all of us in the love of Jesus and you are rude in need of repentance. I hope someday you are man enough to apologize he does deserve it and the rest that were here to try to help you. Yes you! Shame on you. P.S. I am Kevinskay's wife and you ruined our day yesterday I hope you are happy!
No feedback from Man!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 9:08:32 GMT -7
Okay wiltingiris
I comment inbetween:
You:
"Man you are a bully and I do not appreciate the way you treat my friends."
I:
You call "Man" a bully; can you specify? What has "Man" done wrong? If there is nothing, you should not use name-calling. That would be a break of rule 7 in here:
www.blazinggrace.org/forums/forum2/1.html
Everyone makes mistakes, and when someone makes mistakes one should say sorry and repent.
You:
"Yes that is how I see the people here. I would appreciate that in the future if you do not want anyone to fix you then make sure after you share you write something like do not reply, or no feedback please and we as members will not take time of our valuable lives to give you any of our love."
I:
I think everybody always should give love to each other. Do you know what all the other members in here will do? Do you know all of them? Do you know how they all will respond in the future?
You:
"Because each feedback is given with the best intentions out of our love of community and of Jesus Christ our God and savior yes this forum is a Christian forum and we promote Jesus."
I:
I think that intentions are not very interesting; we can not see intentions, and we should not talk about them unless we are in a dialogue about intentions to check out whether we succeeded with the intentions or not. It is not so that if the intentions are good, then everything is fine; that means that if someone kills, steals or hurt other people, look at porn or are unfaithful, are violate and so on, and they say they have good intentions then everything is fine?
I think the most important thing is to act right in the situation; We can not see other peoples intentions and we should not be very concerned about them.
You:
"Jesus, Jesus and more Jesus until you get that he is the answer. Jesus, Jesus and more Jesus until you yes you can see that it is not healing we need but to be in complete submission to him."
I:
If one want to follow Jesus; He tells us not to judge; I think he means inner things like faith, what we see and so on because we can not see inner things in others, but I think we should set our finger and point on what we see.
As far as I can see here, what you do here is judging "Man"; you say "Man" doesn't know that Jesus is the answer, and that "Man" can not see...
How do you know all those things about the inner life of "Man"? You have the ability to see the soul and mind and thoughts of "Man"? You have the possibility to see that?
You:
"Jesus, Yes more and more of Jesus. You man and I and all of us in this entire miserable world need more of Jesus. I hope that if this does not help you , you keep it to yourself."
I:
So if "Man" does not get help from your feedback, "Man" should just be silent and suffer silently. Your feedback is the only right thing?
You:
"Nikanor is the most awesome and wonderful admin here and he puts a lot of valuable time in to answering all of us in the love of Jesus and you are rude in need of repentance."
I:
Can you be specific? How is "Man" rude? What do "Man" need to repent from?
You:
"I hope someday you are man enough to apologize he does deserve it and the rest that were here to try to help you."
I:
What do you think "Man" should apologize for? If someone tried to help "Man" and they didn't manage to help "Man", who should say sorry then? Those who didn't manage to help "Man" or "Man" that didn't get help?
You:
"Yes you! Shame on you."
I:
I think that we should always try to build each other up, give each other love and so on; how do you think this can build "Man" up? What leads to acting out? Isn't it for example shame? How can trying to throw shame on someone help them in their fight against acting out?
You:
"P.S. I am Kevinskay's wife and you ruined our day yesterday I hope you are happy!"
I:
How did "Man" ruin your day? What did "Man" do that was wrong? Which rule did "Man" break?
You: "No feedback from Man!"
I:
Is "Man" not allowed to participate on this board? Which rule has "Man" broken? Are you the one to decide whether "Man" shall reply or not? Are you dictator in here? Shouldn't "Man" decide that, not you?
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KevinesKay
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Post by KevinesKay on Mar 8, 2015 15:51:48 GMT -7
To everyone: I think "Man" knows exactly what "Man" is doing. I think he's intentionally trying to undermine what we've got going here. I think "Man" really wants to get kicked out so that he can go home and play the martyr and use that as fuel to justify his self-righteousness and resentment. And "Man" has truly scammed himself into believing that this will all help him get sober. Why else would he criticize the posts of four people whom I consider dear friends including my own wife? I know that you guys all have my back. "Man" doesn't. So I won't be taking "Man's" side in this at all. "Man" is in a very dangerous place. This a perfect example of what we addicts do to set ourselves up for very triggering situations. If one truly wants to be sober, fueling resentment, "fighting back", and playing the martyr all for the sake of "love, joy, peace" will not help. Instead, we wind up adding more reasons to sexually act out. By the way, to everyone. Please don't believe this lie that we have to be sober at all costs. There are much more important things in world than our sobriety.I haven't shared this with any of you yet. But I felt a lot of resentment toward God and others because I was losing the battle to fight sexual lust and acting out. Looking back I realized that I was fighting for the wrong thing.Even after going to 5 meetings a week, counseling, memorizing scripture, reading books, calling people, I was getting worse instead of better. I lost my first marriage due to this addiction. We even had an SAA wedding with many of my recovering friends there. But it wasn't enough, and I got angry and resentful toward God, feeling jealous because some people were recovering faster than I was. I was one the chronic relaspers in the meeting that couldn't seem to get it right. Looking back on that I realized that I shouldn't have been thinking of this as a race to see how much sobriety I can get in the littlest possible amount of time. So then I gave up, completely. From 2000 - 2004, I simply did my own thing. I acted out with pornography, masturbation, street prostitutes, strip clubs, picking up women using a seduction manual. I thought I was finding true love and sex, but they were simply counterfeits. When I got engaged to a woman from Slovakia, I thought I was progressing. When she left me for another man, I continued to act out in destructive ways. In fact, August 2, 2004, after attending Nudes-a-Poppin with a friend, I still wanted more sexual gratification. So cruised the streets for prostitutes that night and picked up an undercover cop. That night, while sitting in jail, I realized that as long as I look at my desire to have sex as a need, I was going to continually do destructive things to go about getting what I feel like I need. I realized then that I was better off avoiding sex altogether than destroying my life chasing after counterfeits. I spent my whole life looking for sex, and never found it. I didn't want to spend the rest of it with nothing to show for it. The fact is sex is not a need. So the following week, I popped back into an SLAA meeting. And the week after that, I popped back into church. But this time with a difference attitude. I knew I couldn't stay sober. I admitted to the group that I'm a chronic relapser. I'm going to act out. But at least, I'm going to demonstrate to you that I'm working my program even if I act out every day. No longer will sobriety be my goal. So I brought out my To-Do list. I made goals. I took efforts to be positive and use this resource for the best. My To-Do list back then had various activities like brushing and flossing my teeth, praying, going to church, going to meetings, etc. But it dawned on me that despite my lack of sobriety, I was making time for self-care and for God. Something that I never made a priority. So if I was God, which would be more important, spending time with Him even if I did act out, or avoiding Him but also avoiding acting out. I realized that sobriety was not so important after all. At least not to God. In fact, within that first month, I declared to my group, "God does not give a flying "hoot" about my sobriety." I actually used a stronger word than "hoot", but I can't mention that word here.  What God cares about is how well am I managing my life being that it's been so unmanagable? How well am I turning my life over to Him? How well am I seeking through prayer and meditaion to improve my conscious contact with God? How well am I developing, exercising, and appreciating the many gifts God has already given me, as opposed to feeling sorry and pitiful for what I don't have?
Hi, I decided to remove some this reply because, although some of it had some merit, I was not saying these words out of love, but out of anger and hatred. "Man", I apologize for my anger and my behavior. I hope that you forgive me. Thank you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 22:30:25 GMT -7
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 2:26:43 GMT -7
Steve, my husband joined and he did a post as Psalm 23. He's been sober for six months with one slip up for about a day where he found a phone and watched porn. My son heard the phone reading Scripture and he found it under a dresser where my H is sleeping and he brought the phone to me.
Poor thing. He was so traumatized with whether or not to tell me. He and my youngest had to tell me that dad had a phone again back in the summer when he was on UE after losing his job. I wanted to have fun during the six months, instead we ended up separated two days before my birthday.
However, the separation is turning into a blessing b/c we both need healing. There isn't that constant tension b/t us and the fighting is almost non existant. I think communication is better.
I noticed he's opening up more which is something I've wanted him to do for years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 10:45:35 GMT -7
He's doing well and six months is a good achievement.
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