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Post by SandyJWE on Sept 16, 2013 4:43:53 GMT -7
I need some advice if anyone would like to share… I have been struggling with areas in my thoughts and beliefs on when to stand up for what you believe while you are learning to walk with Christ. I get that we should not judge, we need to forgive and love as Jesus as shown us in the Bible. When do we stop being doormats and stand up, Jesus was not a doormat, he got angry, he was strong , and he was a leader for a group of very strong men. When and how is the right time, to say I am not good with this, I don’t believe this is correct to a person in authority. How is it when you stand up for something - you are told that you are being disobedient?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2013 23:49:25 GMT -7
Hi, thanks for asking.
First of all I want to confess, I just recently acted out. I have a feeling it will make me see unclear. That means I might not contribute so good to other people, and I say sorry for that. When that said, I try:
As far as I can see we are allowed to confront each other on outward actions, but we shall never judge about inner things like pride, faith, lack of joy and such things because humans are not Allmighty so we can't see into other peoples souls.
Mark 6,14-29 is about John the baptist who got killed because of what he said. Verse 18: "For John had been saying to Herod, “It is not lawful for you to have your brother’s wife.â€" I think it was right of John the baptist to say that. I guess he didn't do anything wrong. He judged actions as far as I can see. He didn'd judge something inner.
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Post by SandyJWE on Sept 18, 2013 1:35:44 GMT -7
Man,
Thank you for your reply. It is helpful and it does confirm what the bible says at least to me. I am now reading the book of Revelation and found it very interesting how the letters to the churches address their behavior, what is good and what is not as good. The church of Thyatira (Rev 2:18 - 29) received commendation for Love, Service, Faith and Patience, however was called on their tolerance for "Jezebel and her wickedness". They are called to repent and "casting of Jezebel's consorts into the Great Tribulation and killing her children". So as I read this, how are we not called to stand up and say hey, what you are doing is wrong. As you pointed out John the Baptist did as well and died for it. Mike has also written some articles about the churches and the lack of wanting to address very important topics (porn, sexual addiction within the church) in fear of turning away their members... So with this I am feeling I have been disobedient in so many ways, by not standing up and saying to both others and churches that what they are doing is wrong, Not in a judgmental way of course, but a loving way of hey, I am worried about you and your salvation. Very thought provoking stuff here. Thanks again and please continue to share your thoughts... I love to learn how others think and feel about these subjects it helps me grow too.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2013 7:17:31 GMT -7
Hi Sandy,
I have really enjoyed books on boundaries by Henry Cloud and John Townsend.
TruthSeeker
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Post by SandyJWE on Sept 18, 2013 7:21:30 GMT -7
Thank you very much. I will check them out.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 5:28:01 GMT -7
We are called to judge in respect of discerning truth from error.
" By their fruits ye shall know them." So judgment is advocated in that sense of discernment. We are condemned for judging those who sin when we are doing the very same thing(s) -- brought out so clearly in Romans 2.
Disobedience is commended by God when the command of God prevents us from following the orders of those who are in authority over us e.g., " We ought to obey God rather than men." And for this disobedience against the authority of the Sanhedrin, the Apostles were beaten. We must expect to suffer for truth. As Man states, John the Baptist paid dearly for his judgment against Herod Antipas.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 7:15:09 GMT -7
SandyJWE:
Thanks for the comment. And then to your post; You Write:
"When and how is the right time, to say I am not good with this, I don’t believe this is correct to a person in authority. How is it when you stand up for something - you are told that you are being disobedient?"
In general my thoughts are:
I think a person in authority should respect those who doubt what is going on and check out the case, discuss it, look upon it, search for answers and so on. If they don't do it, Matthew 18, 15-17 might be a good principle?
Forcing someone to obey someone is never right, and trying to make people obey without 100 % opennes according to what they shall obey can be wrong as far as I can see. Questions must be allowed to be asked and things must be allowed to be checked out. If not, the principles in Matthew 18,15-17 might be applied?
The wife of Herod could also have told John the Baptist that he should respect authorities and not speak up?
Forcing people to obey seems to me to possibly be manipulation; What does this person have to hide because he/ she doesn't manage openness? And is this person worthy to be obeyed when he/ she doesn't respect those who have questions?
Seems to me that those who try to force other people to obey them might be more offenders than good leaders?
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Post by SandyJWE on Oct 24, 2013 3:49:57 GMT -7
Thanks… those are both great thoughts and scriptures; reading them will help me tremendously. I like how the bible answers our questions, and two different people, had great input on how I could get the answers and help me with my questions. Thank you both again…
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2013 0:56:30 GMT -7
Again I have acted out. I am so sorry for that. Then I get blind maybe; Don't see clear and can't give maximum to my fellows? Sorry.
When that said, thank you very much for your encouraging feedback SandyJWE.
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Post by SandyJWE on Oct 25, 2013 4:44:34 GMT -7
I think we are here to be held accountable, me as well, and to encourage each other. Thank you for your transparency, I know for my husband that was very difficult for a while. It is not always easy to say we "slipped".
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