Is a 'casual porn user' worse than an addict?

Hi Hopefull,

I think Tim makes an excellent point.  For me, I think it is worse if they do not acknowledge that their behavior is wrong in God's eyes, because then they are not concerned with change, unless their desire not to lose their family is greater than their selfishness.

TruthSeeker

It does have the same consequences but I don't find any support online for it (apart from here).It's all about the addicts!
I feel that it's worse because they aren't addicted and they can easily choose not to but they go ahead with it anyway. That shows lack of respect and selfishness and where there is no respect how can there be love?

I understand that addicts do all of this too but it seems different.

Also addicts have deep rooted problems and they end up using porn as a temporary getaway. Casual users show that there may be no problems except for their unfaithfulness and selfishness. Don't they?

I apologise before hand. I'm really bad at explaining things but ask if you don't understand something.

See the thing is, You know the way you get all those questionaires to find out if you're a porn addict, well the only one that get's tick is - yes it has interfered with our relationship. Nothing else gets ticked!

I know I said 'is casual porn worse than addicts'. I should have asked if it is 'different'.

See he's gone off to meet a psychologist to find out if he's an addict or what. Now if he was an addict I would see it as a problem that has escalated through his life and was there before me and he uses it to block out what ever crap he decides to blame it on and I wouldn't be 'as' offended. Then I would be more inclined to understand his lies and deceit and you know all that crap. We all (wives) go through the same thing.

Now if it's 'just' (don't want to use that word) casual porn then this is something that he has dabbled in through out his life for less intense reasons, maybe entertainment or whatever he saw it as. Or maybe not, but he didn't use it regularly enough to say he was addicted. Now I very clearly and loudly said if it happens again I'll be gone. He then decided to go what his friends said and that everybody does it they just get better at hiding it. That to me shows that he has thought about it and calculatedly decided on what to do. This is the difference. Same results though. Well maybe worse for me.

I have asked him now though how could he ignore my massive reaction and it looks to me that he rationalised it away. i.e. He thought I was over reacting, pregnant and hormonal, everybody he asked said it was normal, was too embarrased to talk to me, it wasn't that bad, until my reaction was no more than a bad feeling in the back of his heart after he'd done it. Disrespectful or addict?

It does make a difference doesn't it?

 edit to say, another reason I ask is because I need to understand properly. Was it a communication problem, anger problem on my side, lack of respect on his side. The more I understand the better I can tackle it.

You're welcome! Of course it's wonderful if what we've been able to share here is helping.

Several thoughts:

(1) I don't remember if I've sent you the links to various fellowships for spouses and other friends of sex addicts:

cosa-recovery.org/
www.coslaa.org/
sanon.org/
coda.org/

You might look and see what's available in your area. Alanon is also a possibility. At least where I am, Alanon is open to friends and family of people with addictive problems other than alcohol, or even to people who just have developed similar ways of trying to control the behavior of others and taking on the struggles of others. Showing up at a few meetings and seeing if they offer you a forum for sharing and self-understanding might well be time well spent.

Seeing a psychologist for you, or working with some other sort of support, might be useful for your own life, whatever your husband ends up doing.

Apologies if I've said that before. I'm just reacting to your statement about not having been able to talk about this.

(2) Be aware that there are psychologists who believe in behavioral addictions and psychologists who don't. There are also psychologists who don't get it, and who think all guys do it. Clients also sometimes misrepresent or misunderstand what they hear from their therapists. If he comes back with a professional judgment that doesn't make sense to you, don't start to doubt your own understanding of your life.

(3) A definition one often hears of addiction is that it's an inability to stop doing something despite experiencing negative consequences for the behavior and trying to stop. If, in fact, he's never tried to stop, then it's kind of hard to test that definition. If he really believes that what he's doing is fine and normal and that you are the one with the problem, so that he hasn't felt negative consequences, then it's hard to test.

I wasn't like that, at least not in the last 25 years or so of my active addiction. I had really struggled to stop using, and had felt a great deal of shame and pain over my failure. I took a quiz at Patrick Carnes' site where I said yes to a whole lot of questions, and it came back saying there was a 97 or 98 percent chance I was a sex addict. So I really don't have any understanding of somebody who can leave all the boxes unticked.

I guess it would seem to me, though, that there are several possibilities.

First, he may be simply so inconsiderate that he's persisting in something he knows is deeply hurtful when it would be easy for him to stop. Something like a man who continues to drink tea despite knowing that you were once raped in a tea shop, and that each cup was causing you flashbacks. That would, indeed, be awful, but is it possible or likely?

Second, it may be just a habit of his, but one that's important to him, and he may sincerely believe that you're the one with the problem in not accepting that he's entitled to continue in his harmless fun. In this model, he's the husband of a vegetarian wife, he likes to eat an occasional chicken sandwich for lunch at work, and he can't understand why you can't let him do something perfectly normal, when eating meat isn't against his own morals. I'm not quite sure how to get across the message that chicks are not chicken, as it were. Joint counseling with the right counselor?

Third, he could be addicted and not be ready to see that. A lot of us males are remarkably clueless about our own feelings, and very resistant to exploring them. Addiction is all about hiding from ourselves as well as hiding from others. One can hide by lying on the questionnaires; one can also hide by self-denial. No, I never used at work (all that often. Or at least, I didn't really need to, so it doesn't count). No, I never tried to quit and failed (because failure would mean that I wasn't in control, and of course I'm in control. I just didn't try all that hard to quit, but I could have quit if I had). No, I never felt guilty (because I'm running from all my feelings, and no way can I admit to myself that a feeling like that exists). You get the picture.

Fourth through Sixth, there are interpretations I haven't been insightful enough to find yet.

To me, models 2 and 3 make sense, and I'm not sure model 1 does.

You're right that how one feels emotionally about the three men in those three models is different. How long one might continue to give the three men a chance is different. How (or whether) one would try to enlighten them is different. It's also true, though, that if none of those three men ever quits, then living with any of them is still being ignored and disrespected and enduring behavior that may be unacceptable for you or for other members of the family. In that behavioral sense - and behavior is all you can really build boundaries about - the porn user is a porn user.

Does this make sense? I do see the distinction you're drawing. In some ways, it feels like it matters a whole lot; in other ways, maybe not so much.

I'm feeling like I'm being very unclear, though, and it's time for me to go off to an SLAA meeting.

Cheers,

Tim M.