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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 3:25:47 GMT -7
I thought this might be an interesting topic for discussion as I certainly have changed my opinion about it during by journey with addiction. Should a person step down from any or all ministries if they are struggling with sexual addiction? I have been told I should not be an elder in our church because of my compulsive sin. I also serve and lead several other ministries and have done so with the full knowledge of my leaders and mentors. Thoughts?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 6:43:02 GMT -7
If we were to not minister because of sin, no one would minister not even Paul. When God calls you to minister, He gives you the grace to be in that position as long as you stay close to Him. So stay put unless God is calling you to move on. Of course if your superiors in the ministry are asking you to step down then you must respect their request. But it doesn't sound like this is the case.
Brave if you are struggling with your sin being worse because of your ministries then you may need to take a break and delve more deeply into God. Even church leaders need to take sabbaticals every so often to refresh and renew their spiritual life with Our Lord.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 9:59:57 GMT -7
Actually Amy my position and my leaders are the same as yours but I have run into Christians on these forums that either step down from everything or think others should. I have found the ministries I serve in have done more to help me than sitting out. The more I am involved the closer I feel to God. I used to think if a leader was struggling with sexual sin they should step down regardless if they are repentant or not. I don't think like that anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 18:52:18 GMT -7
Brave if you run into anyone on this forum suggesting that to you, tell them to take it up with your superiors. I would be happy to talk with them in regards to this forum and I am betting your superiors in your other ministries would do the same. You are a blessing to this forum. I would not have someone in this ministry that hasn't experienced this sin. Only those that know this sin on a personal level could offer the understanding, encouragement and advice needed to others in the trenches.
As long as the ministries are not weakening you and causing you to sin, stay where God has put you. The enemy tries very hard to get us to give up and not do the things God would have us do. I would say this is what us going on with you right now. Be vigilant and faithful to God's calling on your life.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 23:06:01 GMT -7
Hey, Braveheart, I personally am thankful that you did not choose to step down from the Blazing Grace ministry. I have welcomed your encouragement, honesty, and insight. You have been a blessing to me.
I had lots of opinions on sex addicts, pornography use, etc, oh my gosh, have I had to lift my eyes and see things from a different view.
God is doing great work through a lot of the men and women here. It is comparable to the imperfect people that we see God use throughout scripture for the sake of his mission. I never quite understood why Jesus chose the individuals he did, but he didn't ask me :-) He didn't call the most popular, rich or successful to further his ministry, but rather, the poor, broken and faithful.
Jesus didn't care who they were, what they had done or where they had been, he used all people for the good of His will.
Samson was a womanizer, Rahab was a prostitute, the Samaritan woman was divorced, Noah was a drunk, Jacob was a cheater, Peter denied Jesus three times, and Paul persecuted Christians before becoming one. Jesus took their brokenness and used them all for the greatness of his glory.
Jesus used a bunch of flawed people to share Hope to a flawed world. And don't we all have one flaw or another that we could use in some way to serve?
I always try to remember that Jesus doesn't call the equipped, He equips the called.
Grace
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2016 3:27:10 GMT -7
I actually wasn't thinking of stepping down from any ministries including this one at least not because of my struggles. I actually thought some people on here would feel that stepping down when struggling with sexual sin would be the right thing to do at least in some circumstances. If your pastor had an affair would you want him still preaching and shepherding the flock. There are stats out there saying 38% of pastors view porn but we only hear of the few that resign or step down. I know every case is different but in general I would have expected a few people to say dismissal or resignation is a must for any sexual sin. As I said, before I fell into this I would have felt that way. I guess God wanted me to learn more about His love and grace. For you ladies whose husbands are addicts, has your husband remained in ministry?
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Post by KevinesKay on Sept 25, 2016 19:39:01 GMT -7
I actually wasn't thinking of stepping down from any ministries including this one at least not because of my struggles. I actually thought some people on here would feel that stepping down when struggling with sexual sin would be the right thing to do at least in some circumstances. If your pastor had an affair would you want him still preaching and shepherding the flock. There are stats out there saying 38% of pastors view porn but we only hear of the few that resign or step down. I know every case is different but in general I would have expected a few people to say dismissal or resignation is a must for any sexual sin. As I said, before I fell into this I would have felt that way. I guess God wanted me to learn more about His love and grace. For you ladies whose husbands are addicts, has your husband remained in ministry? Although God's grace is greater than all of our shortcomings. God's uses broken people to carry his message of love. That's the way He intended it to be. But you raise a valid point about many people, including Christians, that show little tolerance for those in ministry that are found guilty of s*xual sin. Pastors Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker are just a few examples of how such a fall from grace will destroy their credibility among others. Both are still working in the ministry, but many people feel their testimony is flawed. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2016 10:05:09 GMT -7
personally i feel that someone compulsively sinning the same sexual sin should step down from ministry util they get it sorted. yes we are all sinners but the idea is to be strivig for a higher and higher level of purity, the closer we come to God, the more we are aware of our sins, but the sins that bother us should be becoming more and more 'minor' , not keeping at the same sin level.For example when you are a new christian you are bothered by obvious sins and sort them out, as time goes on you are bothered the same amount by just thinking in an 'unchristian' way, or by the way you responded to something without enough grace. Addiction or not, living in sexual sin and with gross immorality is absolutely not supposed to be tolerated within the church let alone by its leaders. Quite aside from that fact I belive that being in ministry will make you more of a target for satan and that wont help overcoming a sexual addiction. Sort out the sin, repent and STOP SINNING, and then your teaching and witness of Christ givig you a new heart will have credibility
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2016 10:25:44 GMT -7
Well ellekay I am not surprised by your response based on your story. I used to think the same way and was very black and white in my thinking. I do know that my involvement in ministry while walking in repentance has been the only thing keeping me from total destruction. It focuses me on who I am and what God created me for. I have been totally open and honest with my leaders and peers and have submitted to their wisdom. They have encouraged me to keep working out my struggles while being a leader and I have to say God has indeed amazed me with his grace and has used me greatly. I don't believe it's a one size fits all answer and every individual needs to be evaluated by those in authority over them. If you can't trust your leaders why would you be in that church? Legalism drives sin underground so then you have leaders never being honest and secrecy and deception prevail rather than truth and repentance. I would willingly step down from any ministry at any time and satan would be very pleased I'm sure.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2016 17:55:21 GMT -7
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 2:28:00 GMT -7
i agree, sobriety isnt enough, it needs to be heart change, and repentance. Repentance means a complete turning from the thing you are repenting of. Not a constant return to. The return to porn means that somewhere in the heart there is a desire to hold onto it. the christian leader needs to be above reproach, which doesnt mean he is sinless, but he should be modelling walking the christian walk, and be truly surrendered. an addict is not surrendered. You wouldnt have a heroin addict in leadership would you. The bible is very clear about tolerating sexual immorality in leadership, so if i am black and white, no more so than the bible is. Thats not legalism, it's modelling purity which needs to be done by leaders. If leaders have to hide and be deceptive about things then they are in the wrong role. A leader should show truth and repentance and then can be reconciled to ministry. If he has repented he is no longer a porn user, so no problem.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 4:33:40 GMT -7
Is this your opinion for sexual sin only or do other sins disqualify us from leadership? Before I relapsed into sexual sin I was very judgemental and proud as a leader at times. I have been told by my leaders/mentors that I am much more gentle and humble now. What other sins disqualify us from leadership if we keep failing?
I agree hiding and deception are wrong but as I said I have been totally transparent to my wife, leaders, mentors and counsellors. I again can understand your view as I once held it but I am learning on my journey that God's view includes much grace. Even Paul called himself the greatest of sinners and had a "thorn in the flesh" so God's power could be revealed in Paul's weakness.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 8:07:01 GMT -7
like i said, i dont think a heroin addict should be a leader either. I dont think a compulsive liar should be a leader. i dont think a habitual thief should be a leader. I dont think a regular wife beater should be a leader. I dont think an ex-medium who just cant help consulting the dead now and then should not be in ministry. Don't you agree? Why do yOU make an exception for porn?
Nobody is perfect etc but a leader should be modelling the general pattern of a christian lifestyle especially in regard to blatantly obviously immoral or demonic choices.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2016 8:56:25 GMT -7
I guess we basically have different views of what repentance is. I totally agree porn or sexual sin is wrong and should not be tolerated by any Christian. How do we measure repentance with regards to porn or any of the sins you mention? Is it measured by perfection in never sinning again or is it measured by hating your sin and doing everything you can to keep it under control until God heals you, while being totally transparent and submitted to the leaders that God places over you?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 3:22:02 GMT -7
i see what you're saying for example you can repent of being angry in a certain situation but it certainly doesnt mean you'll never react angrily again, however with these big immorality issues its a lot different to 'emotional' sins, at least that is the way i see it. Porn and being truly converted to my mind just are not compatible. There is a part of you that either still loves the sin, or lacks belief in the seriousness of it. You mention Pauls thorn in the flesh but we have no idea what that is, but i dont think its a sinful behaviour he has because he pleads to the churches to 'imitate him'and model a life set apart from cultural perversions. We struggle with responding internally a Godly way all our lives but we are told clearly that it is the DOERS of immorality that wont enter the kindgom of heaven, and Paul is shocked to see sexual immorality lived out in the church. personally I dont believe that orgies perversion,and depraved imagery could have any pull on a converted heart, they are just like images of hell and devil worship to me, however i can understand a sexual pull towards of a beautiful woman , after all women have been created beautiful to man.(i see no beauty in porn at all only horror) . If a leader battled with feeling lustful in that way but not giving into it, that is one thing, but returning to this images of demonic orgies and graphic bodyparts...no...thats just too far. Thats joining in drinking the cup of demons, defiling women whose souls you should be weeping over not masturbating over! I'm sorry but its just too horrific to imagine a church leader doing that , and if i found out MY church leader did, it would probably destroy all faith in the church for me, and any hope that God can really change a mans heart.
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