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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2010 15:38:06 GMT -7
my fiance is a sex addict. although he has succumbed to porn and acting out in the past, (and has gone to 'sa meetings) he has not physically acted out while with me during the last 4 years, at least this is what he tells me. i want to beleive him. i see a pattern though, of behavior that tears me apart. when he is away for work, on our credit card are charges for the friend finder site. he says he likes to look at the profiles but has not acted on it. this seems to only happen when we are apart.
whenever this happens, my heart beats out of my shirt, i feel betrayed, i feel as though my self esteem is lost and i feel damaged. i realize that i am not to blame nor am i able to change his behavior. he is looking into sa meetings and wants to have this lifted from him, that i do believe,. still, it does not make it any easier on me to feel the shame and hurt that i do.
because he has only relayed his addiction to me 2 years ago, i have questions that i dont have the answers to. i need to know if my behavior is enabling him. i like sex, and i like sex with him. he does not in any way make me feel uncomfortable in our sex life. we on occassion will look at things on the internet together but that is far and in between. i like him to masterbate with me present but now im reading that that isnt good? i feel so confused and dont know where to turn. i feel as though i am alone, uneducated, and not sure what is right and what is not in this relationship. any advise would be helpful.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2010 2:08:33 GMT -7
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2010 23:54:29 GMT -7
thank you that article was helpful
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2010 1:49:37 GMT -7
I've stayed out of this discussion in order not to intrude, but given the low level of traffic on the board, let me make a brief comment anyway.
As an addict, I don't look at your fiancé's behavior with a lot of comfort. If he's really in sober recovery, there is no place for Adult Friend Finder. Does he know his use of this site hurts you? Then he's either continuing to use it because he's addicted and can't stop, or because he's so indifferent to your pain that it doesn't matter to him. Neither is a great basis on which to start into a marriage.
You also say he has gone to SA in the past and that he's looking into meetings now. That's a very long way from being active in recovery. Thinking about doing meetings sometime is something we say to get people off our back; it's not something we say if we are holding onto recovery because we know our lives depend upon it.
You obviously know him and I don't, but from what you write, I'm hearing somebody who is still addicted, still not ready to do the hard work of continuing recovery, still in a lot of denial, and probably still hiding quite a lot. Almost always with active addicts, what you know is the tip of the iceberg.
So more than what goes on in the bedroom, I'd be asking questions like, am I comfortable being married to someone who is still addicted and whose behavior can just be expected to escalate? If he's not willing to change to stop my pain now, will he become more willing to change when walking away becomes even harder? If he's really being honest about his use of the computer and phone, then obviously he'll be willing to be completely transparent and to allow me to verify that he's not using and cheating; how do we do that so that I feel safe? If I don't trust him now, am I ready for a lifetime of suspicion?
Those are a lot of hard questions, I know. But now is a time when you have a lot of leverage to set boundaries for your own safety. You can insist on software to inform you of his internet usage, on getting copies of his bills, on knowing where he is, on his really going to those meetings and getting counseling and being transparent about his growth and recovery. He doesn't like that? Then I don't think he's honestly seeking recovery. If that's so, then of course he may eventually hit bottom and get sober, but I sure wouldn't marry him without being very clear that I was signing up for years of pain before that happens, if it ever does.
Having expressed that level of caution and concern, I should say that it's possible for things to work out even should you marry him now. Because of my deception, my wife spent 30 years with me as an active sex addict. She is able to say now that she would have married me even knowing my condition, but I have to be honest that much of those 30 years was hell for me and for her and for our kids. All of us are still recovering from the damage I did, and we will be for a very long time. Do go into this with your eyes open.
Tim M.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2010 2:00:30 GMT -7
Your response was what i was looking for. Thank you for your honest truths.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2010 1:04:40 GMT -7
Dear Beating Heart,
I'm thinking of going on a diet, next week, but last night I went to the Thai place and got my favorites.
I hope that illustrates what your fiance is really saying/doing.
Tim is telling you the truth. From a wife who has tried to make the lie work for 23 years, I would advise you to RUN as far and as fast as you can away from the situation. I would also advise you to get some counseling or buy some books on co-dependency. If you do not identify and deal with the reasons you ended up with an addict in this relationship, you will most likely repeat the same mistakes in the next. You probably grew up in a home with an addict and were raised to ignore your needs and feelings. You need to deal with those issues before you can be a partner in a healthy adult relationship.
I'll be praying for you.
My best, Devastated Wife
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2010 15:26:44 GMT -7
I dont believe that running as fast as i can will benefit either of us. SA is just like anyother addiction or bad habit that someone has. Can it ruin lives? absolutely and has in his past. When there is so much good to a person i cant see how running away will help a situation that I would like to be able to be involved with the recovery process-that is why I posted.
Knowing the signs, learning what the triggers are, counseling and whatever else it takes for me to educage myself is what I feel is needed for me-as for him, he does need to be held accountable-needs to be actively going to SA meetings and in counseling. These are things we are openly discussing and needs to be followed through with because i know our relationship depends on it.
Im looking for feedback to help me. My intention is to stay in the relationship that I have built with this man. Do I want a life of suspician? Heck no. I havehowever put my trust in God that He will help us through this. I learned along time ago that putting your trust in a person is only going to allow you to be let down by them... whether its by being a sex addict or not.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2010 17:19:54 GMT -7
I've lived it for 23 years. I've merely provided you with my perspective. If I had known 23 years ago what I know now, I would have RUN as far and as fast as I could have AWAY from the situation.
I pray that 23 years from now, you are not looking back over your life, over your lost youth, your lost opportunities wishing you had made a different decision.
If you are not willing to walk away now, then you are a co-dependent and you need counseling as well.
My best, Devastated Wife
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2010 19:05:55 GMT -7
Beating Heart,
Perhaps I've not done a good job of telling you what is in store for you as the wife of a sex addict. I will now try to provide you with some insight into what you can reasonably expect.
Unless and until he is in active recovery, you must:
1. Be prepare to be last on his list of priorities. The instant you say "I do," the honeymoon will be over. Like it or not, he is still trying to woo you, still in pursuit mode. The instant you marry him, "Love, honor and cherish" will become "Ignore, belittle and tolerate." Addicts are incredibly self-centered. As fiance, you have not seen the reality. His date face will come off and you will find yourself married to a man you've never met before. Your wishes, needs, desires, hopes, dreams will be subordinated to his. Take it to the bank. Work, hobbies, jobs around the house, anything that he finds important will take precedence over anything you find important or meaningful.
2. Be prepared to be the sole bread winner. As he sinks deeper into the addiction, he will lose the ability to think critically. He will reach erroneous conclusions. His management skills, if any, will evaporate. He will become a neurochemical mess. He will lose his job or jobs. It will always be someone else's fault. He will not take responsibility for his failings in your relationship or at work. He will even blame you.
3. Be prepared to be a single parent. His interaction with his children will be superficial at best. He will interact with them only at your urging. They will be noisy little distractions to him. He will be nothing more than a glorified baby sitter. He will not assume is proper place as the head of the home or the spiritual head of the home. He will give the Lord lip service, but no real time.
4. Be prepared to manage every aspect of the home. You are going to have to be in charge of the finances, maintenance, cleaning, laundry, childcare. You name it, you are going to have to develop a system to manage the task.
In short, you have to be prepared to marry an arrested adolescent. I don't know why anyone would knowingly, willingly saddle themselves with that type of a relationship. If he does not show you that he is serious about his recovery, RUN.
I'll be praying for you........
My best, Devastated Wife
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2010 11:04:20 GMT -7
I have read and re-read the contibuters comments and I would like to know more. For example, I would like to hear more ways of how do I keep myself safe. Is there really ever going to be a time when I am truly that? I keep thinking of other marrriages and addictions-no one is ever truly safe in any relationship. I feel I can protect myself in ways, and I would appreciate even more details from all of you.
What signs did you look for or what signs did you display for anyone who reponds that is an addict.
How do I talk about it with him in a manner that is respectful to both of us. And separating from my anxiety in order to talk. We both agree that we will seek counseling together and separate.
Where is the line between being transparent and always being an investigator? does that last a lifetime? Do you feel from experience, that if he is continually transparent and goes to meetings, that this can work?
What was the point in which you all had the knowledge of your spouses addiction and for the gentleman, when did your wife become aware? How did that play out? It sounds as though Devastated Wife has given up on marriages working with this addiction. Is that an accurate statement? And I say that with a gentle tongue as with all my comments. I am not here to judge, but to learn.
As an almost middle aged woman and going into this as a second marriage, I do not feel that my feelings in respect to being belittled nor feel as though he puts me last are valid and there are no young children that are involved . he does hold his own with the household. (We have lived together for two years.)
He is a man who was very much into porn as a teenager and it trickled into his first marriage-that ended, he acted out in many different ways til he did finally hit bottom. He has crawled from a very low place and I feel is going to do whats right for our relationship. I know I cant always be around to babysit his actions. Does that bother me? To some extent it really bothers me that I have to even think that way. He will be away from me for the next 8 weeks. I pray, I seek advice and guidance from those who know this better than I, and I hold onto God very, very, tightly.
He will be going to a meeting this weekend. Do I have proof that it will happen? Absolutely not. Just his word and that I have to 'trust'. I am encouraging anyone who reads my post to respond. Tough answers and all- I need you all very much. Im looking for the best course of action for a relationship that has so much good to it, too much to turn my back on.
Thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2010 15:50:39 GMT -7
My wife caught me before we married. I promised to quit, but of course I could not. Over the next 25 years or so, I hid my addiction pretty well. On two or three occasions, though, I cracked and confessed that I was still having problems. Always, this was at moments when I thought I was now finally able to quit. Always, that was wrong.
I think in a lot of ways, we ended up in a "Don't ask; don't tell" situation. It was clear something was wrong between us, but it was not clear to my wife what that was, and she did not press me. It was certainly not clear to her that my addiction was anything like the daily struggle (and often daily failure) that it was.
How did my addiction impact us? I was a workaholic, partly because I was wasting so much time acting out that I was always behind, partly because being busy was a cover for my addiction. I was emotionally distant and unavailable to my wife and kids, and very much emotionally hiding from myself. We were often OK acquaintances, but there was nothing inside me. I was unpredictably angry and would react in rage to both my wife and my kids, in part because I was angry at myself, in part because I was trying to control them when I could not control myself, in part because if I could convince myself that they had wronged me and treated me badly and not met my needs, then I would be justified in meeting my needs elsewhere. I was depressed, and eventually contemplating suicide. I was distant from the Church, and my relationship with God was based on my frustration and anger that God was demanding of me something that was clearly proper to demand, but that I simply couldn't do. It was hell, flat out. The stress of all those years of hiding, of rage, and of hating myself is why I believe I had a heart attack at 52 despite eating well, exercising, and having no family history of coronary artery disease. My distance and anger with the kids has helped produce in them their own psychological struggles.
I just want to be direct about the costs of my behavior.
Eventually, I hit bottom and became willing to do what it took to get better. I started attending SAA and SLAA meetings, first online and then face-to-face. I did a bunch of reading. I got a sponsor and started working the steps. I started looking into counseling.
It was at this point that I finally really disclosed to my wife the extent and continuing nature of my addiction. Of course, that was really hard for both of us, but there was also a positive energy that came from finally understanding what was wrong, and from the fact that there was obviously a commitment to change and to a new openness. Of course it was a roller-coaster of optimistic new beginning and realization of how much of the past was tainted. I remember really enthusiastic expressions of new hope; I also remember being told that my wife looked back on the 30 years we had been together without being able to think of a single thing to celebrate. We're still together.
That's obviously a quick account of a lot of years. I'm happy to add detail or to try to address other questions if it helps.
Tim M.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2010 1:31:26 GMT -7
On July 5, 2009, my preferred browser, Internet Explorer, stopped working on my husband's computer. With little time I clicked on Mozilla Firefox, his preferred browser, and out of force of habit, clicked on the drop down box expecting my links to be there. Wrong. His favorite links were displayed. I was shocked, hurt and frankly HORRIFIED by what I found.
After examining the links, I searched the hard drive for all files ending in ".jpg". I found a stash of porn hidden in the systems files. Reality hit while I was alone, in the basement of our home. I realized I had no idea who the man was that I was married to. We had been married for 23 years. I subsequently found additional porn on CD's that were hidden on top of the ductwork in our basement. I also found paraphenalia hidden in his workshop.
During our 23 year marriage, I had hauled him to marriage counseling twice before, once in 1994 and again in 1997 or 1998. Neither series of sessions produced any lasting result. I went complaining of what I have subsequently learned are the classic signs and symptoms of a porn addiction. Neither therapist put it all together absolutely. The second therapist got close to the reality and of course, that's when he stopped going to therapy. He attended both series of sessions with an attitude, blaming me, accusing me of having "a lot of issues to deal with" so he went with a martyr complex....as the long suffering husband who was helping his wife through her issues.
When I initially confronted him with the porn, probably a week or so after the initial discovery, he blamed ME for his addiction. Fortunately, I had found this site, done a lot of reading, and I had steeled myself against that precise reaction. The fact that he blamed me was diagnostic. He ultimately admitted the following: that hardcore print media porn came into our first apartment before our first anniversary, that he had first been exposed to porn at a friends house as a teenager, that he believed he just had a high sex drive and that his appetite for porn would cease after we were married. Throughout our entire married life, he had been blaming me for the fact that he "needed" porn. This, in his mind, justified ignoring, belittling, tolerating me and the children. He would go away on business trips, gleefully, and not call me or check in for a week at a time. He said he was just busy while on business trips. He refused to carry a cell phone. He would leave without giving me an itinerary or a phone number where he could be reached. I was a single parent. The porn addiction impacted every facet of our lives. I saw the signs and symptoms, I just did not understand or comprehend the root cause.
Unless and until he is in active recovery and fully committed to recovery, DO NOT MARRY THIS MAN.
You think you have built a relationship with a man. What you have, in fact, is a delusion with a little boy. Once you marry him, the date mask will come off and you will then see the truth. I am not trying to be hurtful. I am using clear, direct, unequivocal language in an effort to state the realities and save you the pain and heartache that will undoubtedly follow if you marry an addict who is steeped in active addiction.
I will be praying for you.
My best, Devastated Wife
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2010 2:02:39 GMT -7
How to protect yourself?
1. Never co-mingle your assets. Keep separate bank accounts, separate credit card accounts and ALWAYS keep yourself fully, gainfully employed so that you will NEVER be financially dependent on him for anything. NEVER file a joint income tax return with him. If you do marry him, get a prenuptial agreement that specifies the equitable distribution up front and is triggered by the filing of a divorce action. See a lawyer and your accountant / tax advisor for additional suggestions. Never list him as a beneficiary of your life insurance or IRA or 401(k) accounts.
2. Go to s-anon meetings and private therapy if possible.
3. Never accept his answers to your questions at face value. Look for action, never depend on words. Addicts are the most adept liars in the world.
4. Addiction is a lifelong disease. He may give up porn, but then begin drinking or overeating. He will always be an addict. You have to always be aware of his behaviors and ready to confront him about other addictive behaviors that he may substitute for the porn.
5. S-anon teaches that if you check-up on him, you are sick as well. I have a serious disagreement with that. If his actions go beyond porn and masturbation, i.e. he starts using prostitutes, YOU WILL BE PHYSICALLY AT RISK. I think it is perfectly prudent to check-up on his behavior to the extent that his behavior can impact you physically and mentally. And yes, I think it is a lifelong problem. I will never really trust my husband again. Never. I don't think you can ever trust an addict.
That's all I can think of for now. I will post more as it comes to mind.
My best, Devastated Wife
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2010 3:35:10 GMT -7
Beating Heart:
I have been thinking and praying about your situation and this question keeps coming back to the forefront of my mind:
Why would you ever consider entering a marriage while asking the question "How do I protect myself?"
WHY WOULD YOU EVEN CONSIDER ENTERING A MARRIAGE WHERE YOU WILL HAVE TO PROTECT YOURSELF?
WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?
I am sorry if my words seem harsh, but this is no time for sugar coating. Looking back over my 23 year marriage, I don't see anything that is worth celebrating. I do not wear a wedding ring, haven't for years, and I told him I do not want anything from him for Valentines day. He is in active recovery, but their is nothing I can celebrate other than the validation of my feelings over the years. I knew something was wrong, I just could not put my finger on it. When I found the porn, all the pieces of the puzzle that I'd seen over our 23 year marriage assembled themselves into a technicolor picture. It suddenly all made sense. That is the only thing I can celebrate at this point. I don't know why anyone would knowingly or willingly enter this type of a relationship.
My best, Devastated Wife
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2010 9:50:58 GMT -7
[user=65020]beating heart[/user] wrote:
Once an addict, always an addict but you both can learn and grow from his addiction. This is something you will have to face the facts and realize he is an addict. You have to answer your own question and that is, do you want to face that fact and the continued deception?
Here is an article that was written to help individuals ascertain if they are a sex addict. You may want to read it to gain some more understanding. www.innergold.com/addict.cfm
Don't be judgmental and just ask him questions and just listen. If he is willing to talk, it will start gradually and then a flood will emerge. If he is really seeking to manage this addiction, there may be emotion. Just sit and listen. If he is not talking or answering the questions, share your feelings but not in a condemning way.
For example:
Hunny, I know this is something you say is very difficult and I recognize that. I wanted to share my feelings with you. I love you and I want to be with you so I am trying to understand as much as possible and in the process I have gained a lot of understanding but I have found that I get frustrated, hurt and feeling left out... continue to share your feelings.
If he is any kind of a real man, he will at least listen. If he is not a real man, he will get angry and upset. This should be a sign that he may not be interested in managing his addiction.
We have had some individuals in therapy for 3 years with no progress because they were not really seeking help. They were coming only because their spouse wanted them to seek help. The addict really did not care and really did not try, until recently. Once this individual started to put effort into his recovery, he realized he was a real pig. He realized that he had done a lot of damage to his wife and children and is now in the process of making amends. He should be commended but she is the one that really needs to have the blessings poured upon. She went through hell and back, verbal and emotional abuse was a standard. Once he finally started to get a handle on his addiction, she made the comment, "My husband is back. I did not think it was possible but he is back." They are now doing very well and are helping each other.
The key was that he finally wanted the help. Are you willing to go through a scenario like this or worse?
When true recovery begins, the addict dumps. They realize they need to get a lot off their chest and recognize the need to be 100% honest with their spouse. This is very difficult because a lot of addicts see this as a possible make or break situation. Meaning they will stay with me or leave but I have to let them know. For many spouses, when they learn the full details of the addiction there are several responses like anger, deceit, hatred, frustration, distrust, feeling dirty, feeling scared, worried about STD's, lowered self esteem and many other feelings, to many to list.
You never know how someone else is being treated so it is difficult to possibly understand an entire situation like what Devastated is expressing. Her situation may have been one of the worst case scenarios but you need to take into account you could be a worst case scenario.
Every addict has a cycle which varies.
What is he doing that is right? Is he going through the motions of SAA or counseling for you or for him self? If he does not recognize it as a problem, it will be a problem.
This is the reason he needs to change for him self. You will not always be around and you will not see his every move or know his thoughts but this is where true integrity is manifested. If he is doing it just for you, the likely hood of slipping is tenfold.
Ask him about the meeting. What did they discuss? He can talk about it. He is just not supposed to share names. Ask him what you can do to help him learn to manage this addiction.
What good? What are the elements of this relationship that has so much good to it? I would recommend creating a pros and cons list and truly evaluating it. What is the good about your relationship? What is the strengths and weaknesses? What values do you share? What common goals?
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