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Nov 4, 2005 10:13:01 GMT -7
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2005 10:13:01 GMT -7
Tim
:)I have a ?
You are saying that 12 step program helped, and I agree that they do help, but if you look deep in the 12 step therory, your higher power could be the door knob, I think that is why there is a site like this, we don't need a higher power, we have GOD.
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Nov 5, 2005 10:49:44 GMT -7
Post by TimM on Nov 5, 2005 10:49:44 GMT -7
Dave,
The last thing I want to do is generate controversy that distracts us from our common goal of freedom from our compulsive sexual behavior. Since you ask, though, let me try to give an answer.
I hear people say what you do about a higher power, usually with the example of a doorknob. It would be interesting to know where that particular choice started out. :-)
The Big Book gives people a lot of leaway about a higher power, more than most people on this forum would probably be comfortable with. But I can't read the Big Book and get out of it the possibility of a higher power that isn't something at least tinged with the divine. Could one really say in the Steps, "Made a decision to turn our lives over to the care of a doorknob as we understood a doorknob"? "Humbly asked a doorknob remove our shortcomings"? "Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with a doorknob as we understood a doorknob, praying only for knowledge of a doorknob's will for us and the power to carry that out"? I don't believe anybody in the history of the world has done those things, or could.
I think that in the end, a higher power has to turn out to be divine, but that the vague language offers an entrance to people who would hit the streets as soon as they heard Jesus' name. And I think an awful lot of people come to real faith through AA and other fellowships. Hopelessness and despair are pretty good motivators.
In my own case, I've been a Christian most of my life, and an addict most of my life. I've prayed and fasted and repented and asked for God's grace and done everything I thought my church was asking, and I've gone on sinning sexually again and again and again. Despite all my efforts - and I think they were real efforts - to turn my life over to Christ, I never managed to trust enough until enough decades of failure to fight my addiction completely humbled me. No doubt I wasn't a very good Christian, but I was really trying, and it didn't make me better in my addiction.
Finally I reached a point of real desperation - isolated from God, from my family, from myself, and contemplating suicide. And at that point, Christ spoke to me through the Steps. The Steps helped me to see how much I had always held back from God, how much I had tried to be in control, how much I had believed intellectually without really being willing to trust the Living God. The examples of ordinary people with ordinary lives really giving it all up to God - or to a higher power - and finding recovery gave me a hope I had never had before. And with the Program as a framework, I was able at last to start forming a real relationship with Christ, and to start addressing my faults, and to start recovering from my addiction.
So I'm not here to advocate abandoning Christian faith, or taking up doorknob worship, or whatever. My higher power is Christ. But for me, the desperation of addiction and the hope and fellowship offered by 12-step fellowships was the way I was brought to begin - in a halting and stumbling way - to start at last really to let God be God. So in my life, I've needed Christ, and I've needed the Steps, and I have them together, and I'm not giving either up.
If someone else's experience is not mine, more power to you. I wish I had not needed 35 years of addiction to bring me to faith. Better people than I find God in better ways. For me, though, this was the teacher I needed, and the blessing I received.
Sorry, that got very long. Again, I'm not interested in a theoretical argument, but since you asked me to share my experience, I've tried to do so. Perhaps if we want to continue this discussion (something I am not totally eager to do) we ought to move it to a separate thread, out of searching1's space?
Tim M.
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Nov 6, 2005 13:42:11 GMT -7
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2005 13:42:11 GMT -7
:)Tim
I was going to SA meetings while locked up, and the "one in charge" made that comment due to the fact that he wasn't a Christian, now your new in a group that is to help you understand your addiction, and you hear the higher power comment, would you have second thoughts.
I have nothing against 12 step programs, I am 25+ years sober through AA, with half of that being a Christian, so yes I know God is my higher power, but what about someone who doesn't know God?
Have a great day
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Nov 8, 2005 1:47:46 GMT -7
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2005 1:47:46 GMT -7
searching1,
I just wanted to check on you and see how you're doing. Any updates? Have you been able to find any local support groups or anything? You have been prayed for.
captivated
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Nov 8, 2005 9:50:34 GMT -7
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2005 9:50:34 GMT -7
Thanks Captivated,
I don't have time to chat right now, but I'm good. Thanks for the prayer and concern.
God Bless
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